Worldbuilding is an integral part of writing fantasy. It helps you inform your story and setting, while simultaneously ensuring reader immersion. 

More often than not, the world the author has created becomes a character in itself.

There are lots of things to keep track of though. A great solution can be to create a ‘world bible’.

This can be a ring binder (although - from personal experience - not recommended) or a folder on your computer where you store all the necessary information. 

However, nowadays, there are also several online tools which can be incredibly helpful.

Dave Robinson, the President of Archivos, joins the Am Writing Fantasy podcast for a chat about the wealth of tools available for fantasy authors.

Archivos can be found here: 

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Read the full transcript below.

(Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion).

Narrator (2s):
You're listening to The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast in today's publishing landscape. You can reach fans all over the world. Query letters are a thing of the past. You don't even need a literary agent. There is nothing standing in the way of making a living from writing. Join two best selling authors who have self published more than 20 books between them now onto the show with your hosts. Autumn Birt and Jesper Schmidt.

Jesper (30s):
Hello, I am Jesper and this is episode 101 of The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast. Imagine that we passed 100 episodes. I think that's absolutely amazing. And perhaps Autumn is off celebrating today or something, I don't know, but at least she is not here, but I have a very competent back-up in place. So today I'm joined by Dave and we are going to discuss how to go about note-taking and also how to keep track of your story and your world. So welcome to The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast, Dave

Dave (1m 4s):
Thank you. Jesper I appreciate it. And congratulations on reaching a, a, a 181. I I'm, I'm actually really deeply honored to be your a hundred and first Episode guest, that's outstanding that that's an achievement. Congratulations.

Jesper (1m 19s):
Right. And imagine that we have actually succeeded in releasing podcast episodes, every Monday for 101 Mondays in a row.

Dave (1m 27s):
Yeah. I mean, really that's tempting fate. When you, when you think about the reputation that Mondays have, you have literally defied reality with this podcast, you ask for it. Well done.

Jesper (1m 41s):
Okay. Well maybe it's just started us out there, or maybe you can just tell us a bit about yourself.

Dave (1m 45s):
Sure, absolutely. I'm a, I got the, the, the, the mosaic, because it is Dave, Robinson, it's a broad and vast a thing. I currently, I am a, I'm a voice actor. I have a website that I just launched to, to initiate my professional voice acting career. And I've done, I've done some audio fiction, narrations and so on, but more specifically, and certainly more germane to, to this podcast. I ran a podcast for several years called the Roundtable podcast later, the Archivos podcast network, where we would brainstorm story ideas. A we did invite a veteran authors on an interview with them about their craft, and then bring another writer on to pitch a story idea and we'd brainstorm.

Dave (2m 32s):
And it was marvelous. And that's a, that exposed me to a, a, a broad spectrum of a creative process. As long as you, no doubt, I have discovered in your own interviews, everybody does things a little differently, but there's at, at a certain level, there's a sense there are certain commonalities between our processes, even, even a discovery writer, who's whose writing off the cuff there's, there seems to be some level of documentation or a record keeping or journaling, something that allows the writer to perceive the story that they're writing in some way, shape or form.

Dave (3m 18s):
And I looked around at the technologies and the websites that are out there. And I realized there was no tool that was really geared towards documenting a story. The way we think about stories. I mean, you've got Wiki's, you've got Microsoft word And and so on and so forth, but these are like walls of text. And we don't think about stories that way. When we were writing them, there are these ideas that are kind of globbed together and interconnected and woven together. So I hired some developers and we created Archivos arc H I V O S, which is a tool that allows writers to document the story elements of their stories, and then connect them via the relationships that link them into the larger fabric of the story they're telling.

Dave (4m 12s):
So you can actually see your story the way you think about your story. So, so that's, that's been a, my, my primary focus over, over the last several years, I was on a hiatus for a while with some, with some family health issues, but were gearing up the development cycle. Again for Archivos uhh, and I'm looking forward to exploring more ways of how writers document there stories and that, and how those documents can actually foster additional storytelling.

Jesper (4m 49s):
Yeah. And I have to tell you, Dave, in your, on your website, in the example stuff you have on, on the front page, you've got to be there because for some reason you put a lot of the rings there. And then I was, I was like, okay, this is good from the beginning. Yeah.

Dave (5m 4s):
Ah, I know in my demographic, I know, I, I mean, I'm with you. I am, I am, I am a, I'm a deep sigh FANTASY nerd I've I know my community, my people, my tribe within the, the social network is also very deeply nerdy and Fantasy and science fiction role-playing games and so on. And so naturally when I step into this industry, there's going to be a strong Fantasy flavor. And a lot of the rings is a perfect demonstration of how Archivos can, can help unravel and, and eliminate a story structure.

Jesper (5m 40s):
Yeah. Because a lot of the rings, or is it also a good example from the point of view that it is fairly complex? You know, you have a lot of characters, a lot of places, a lot of plot points really going on and, and so documenting it, it is, but maybe I want to, maybe it just starts taking a step back 'cause once we were talking about documenting the word Worldbuilding Bible of comfort, if you will. So it's on the internet. Yeah. And I think maybe we should say, well, Worldbuilding, Bible in its essence. It's just a way you could say a document. You could have a software for it, whatever, but it's a way where you basically keep track of the information. You need to tell your stories and your setting.

Jesper (6m 21s):
But I think maybe a good place to start would be to discuss a bit, do you need a Worldbuilding Bible and then we can get into the tools of documenting afterwards, but do you need, it is an important one. What do you think about that?

Dave (6m 35s):
I well, as, as we both observed, everybody does this differently. Do you need it? Is it essential? No, I don't think so. And, and that, that might seem counterintuitive considering that created a world Bible tool, but you honestly don't, I know several writers who have told their story and, and narrow their focus of the world to exclusively the perspective of the characters and the events of that story. And that absolutely works. And that creates a very specific type of narrative. That's that's a very intimate, very, very focused on the characters, which is always a good thing.

Dave (7m 18s):
However, and especially as you observe, when you're getting into things like Lord of the rings or Epic Fantasy when, when history a influences current events as it is so very often does not just in a fantasy, but in, in real life, a, when you have political ambitions that are involving large groups of people or organizations, inevitably, I think those narratives become very complicated. And in order to serve your reader in terms of presenting a consistent and nuanced narrative within that complexity, I really think a world Bible as a central.

Dave (8m 4s):

Jesper (8m 5s):
Yeah. I think I view it as a bit of where do you want to put it in your time? Right. Because if you, as soon as, I mean, if you're just writing one novel or, or, or let's say two or three novel at the most in that setting, you can probably keep track of most things without too much trouble without having to build a full Worldbuilding Bible and, and whatnot. But sure. If we, if we are talking about several series in the same world or a massive tome, like a lot of the rings with very complex or something like that, I think I would look at it in a way of, as I said, where do you want to put it in your time? Do you want to document it upfront? So you can easily find things as you go about your plotting or your writing or whatever, or do you want to spend a time in your editing afterwards and finding out all the details that you've forgotten and going through P a, the pastor three books to find, what was this character called, or what was that place called and what was the culture of those people that I described the two books ago and what not?

Jesper (9m 6s):
Right. So I think that's a way to do it as well, but I think I look at it very much at the Worldbuilding Bible as an effectiveness tools, you know, is it just makes you more effective 'cause you can just quickly look things up and say, okay, it's this and go on and move on. Right.

Dave (9m 21s):
Most definitely. Most definitely. And, and in your, in your unique case with your team, Writing with Autumn the wonderful thing about a Worldbuilding Bible is that it creates a vocabulary that you both are using. So continuity and consistency and collaboration, a Worldbuilding Bible suddenly is a tool where you don't have to do to sit down with somebody for four hours and give them your full scope and vision of your world. You can hand them a bow, a document, or, or, or an archive of setting or whatever, and say, here you go. These are the, the tent poles of this narrative that we're working with.

Dave (10m 2s):
So from a, from a collaboration standpoint, it's incredibly valuable as well.

Jesper (10m 8s):
Yeah. And also For for readers. I mean, I think most of us Fantasy writers, well, probably all of us when we read Fantasy as well. And I think one of the things we have very much in common is that we all loved the world building stuff. So if I can get, let's say a link to maybe be an activist, a setting page of a Lord of the rings or a dragon Lance or whatever other settings I might be in love with it. And I could start diving into all those Worldbuilding details that the authors have put in there that a lot of it, of course it won't even be in the books, but there's a lot of background stuff there. I think that's something that will appeal it a lot to read as well.

Dave (10m 47s):
Absolutely, absolutely. Because we, we've got, we've come in to an age where reading the end of a book while that may be the end of your specific engagement with them, the story itself, we actually, I think I've come to expect that there should be a little bit more out there. There should be some, some background information, some, some, maybe some short stories or flash fiction that may be derived in this story setting and writers today have those tools at their disposal with a few clicks of a mouse to have a site or, or some sort of supplemental information that just enriches the experience of that story for the readers.

Dave (11m 36s):
And it just, it's good marketing to have that collateral material available. And it's also good marketing from a preset up stand point. If you can put up a, here are the main characters, not spoil horrific, but you know, let people have a taste of this character's or, or on a map of your world. Oh, God maps don't give a fuck.

Jesper (11m 59s):
No, no.

Dave (12m 1s):
And as a nurse, if there was a map on the front space of a, of a book up there, man, so you give me an intriguing map with some cool place names that ask questions that raise questions in my mind, I'm hooked and what a great way to entice readers to come into your world.

Jesper (12m 20s):
Yeah. I wrote a whole, a guide book on how to do FANTASY map. So that's a particular love of mine too.

Dave (12m 26s):
Well, it's astonishing. There's like I can list three utilities off the top of my head that are now out there for creating really beautiful FANTASY maps. Yeah. So, and we were talking earlier, before we started recording about the advent of technology and the wonders that it's unlocked for storytellers. And I think that just, that just keeps going. That just keeps continuing.

Jesper (12m 50s):
Yeah. So maybe we, maybe we take a look at what are some of the possible ways if we assume now that OK, Worldbuilding, Bible, it's a good thing to have. Yeah. So what are some of the possibilities on how to document it? And I think we can end up with the online version and a afterwards. So after mentioning a few other alternatives, because Archivos is an online version that we can end up there and talk a bit more about that. But I want to say before I started, when I did my first trilogy, I tried with physical binders and I have no idea why I got that idea into my head on what I missed.

Dave (13m 28s):
Yeah. I would, I would imagine the organ is the organization really becomes the challenge at that point. And, and so when your sitting down to World build, and again, you know, that there is no one way to do it, but think about what your objectives are in creating this world. Bible and I think continuity is probably one of the biggest reasons to do it. So you have a reference to the places, the events, that character is, whatever it is that you want to be able to access very quickly. So there needs to be some sort of organizational structure that allows you to identify, you know, if you are going to do binders, then you need, you need some folders in there for characters.

Dave (14m 17s):
And maybe even breaking that down further depends on how, how detailed and granular you want to get. But you can have your antagonist, your protagonist, your SUPPORT characters, your romantic interests, but being able to quickly access that information so that you don't break your flow. When your writing, you know, when you were, when the words are flowing, it's like, you have to get it. I don't stop me. Do not interrupt me. I am in the zone. A and, and when that's, and you get to that point, where, what is that Tavern keeper's name from That Tavern, just put in TK or some code for yourself in the documents.

Dave (15m 2s):
So you can come back to it later. But once, once the, the steam has had blown off and you're, you are sitting back basking in the thousands of words you just wrote, then you can go back, search those things, and you want your Bible to be able to give you the answer is you need without a lot of digging, I think. Yeah,

Jesper (15m 21s):
I agree. And the other issue with the, with the physical binders is that once you think of more, you need to develop something more, all of a sudden magically that a particular pizza in the bite is already full and you can get more room. I don't know why it always happens is that one piece that is old when you start to write.

Dave (15m 38s):
Right. Exactly. Well, and, and actually that raises a good point. I mean, there's a way some people will get by with just no cards and a, I think I've seen Kameron Hurley's a, a note card board is, is Epic, but it is just note cards. And sometimes that's all you need. Sometimes all you need is a reference. And in this case, when a Scrivener, ah, is wonderful as a tool for creating those note cards, we can just put a couple of notes too, to remind you of the, the tone or flavor that this character evokes, or a key moment that you want to have in this event that foreshadows some grand reveal in chapter 20 or whatever.

Dave (16m 23s):
So, I mean, it can be just a matter of having a board with note cards that are color coded, or maybe you got stickers or whatever. Everybody I think creates their own shorthand because everybody's brain is wired differently, but you need to develop, I think that vocabulary with your brain so that the symbols or the colors, or the icons that you use for For recognition, speak to you and, and not necessarily try and adapt your brain to somebody else's a structured system. You create your own. Yeah.

Jesper (17m 3s):
The system is the key word to it. I think because of course, I mean, I want to say as well as the Scrivener was wonderful, because if you are writing a script and already you are in the same data depository, if you could call it that, right. I mean, you can look up, what do you need quite easily? Whereas if it's, if it's stuck inside a spreadsheet or word document, if we just move away from the physical binders here, but that also becomes a very messy, as soon as you have a larger World with a lot of details in it, the searching in a word document is a nightmare, just scrolling back and forth and all of that stuff. So well, so they have Scrivener. So yeah.

Dave (17m 38s):
Yeah, I think so too. I think so, too. And, and the other thing Jesper that I find so fascinating about the Worldbuilding process, because I'm like, I'm a, Worldbuilding junky. I'm, I'm actually, I, I need World builders anonymous. I need the other direction. Cause I will be, you know, I'll be drafting a, a, a story of some kind. It might be a, a, a narrative for a role-playing game or whatever. I'm a big advocate of history informing, present day. And, and I think the, the revelation of history and the assumed truth of the past and the true truth, truth, truth, truth, that's good for the truth of the past, the actual facts in the past.

Dave (18m 22s):
I think that's an intriguing, it's always an intriguing a, a narrative twists. So I end up looking at the, the current Touraine of the story that I want to tell. Then I start digging into the background in the history that lead up to the current circumstances, whatever that might be. And inevitably that history is so cool then I think, Oh no, wait, my actual stories back here, I'm going to go back a hundred years and tell this story. And, and, you know, it's an endless cycle, just an endless cycle. But I think the point is that by investing in some of your story's cycles, some of your bandwidth as a writer in understanding the history of your world, I think, and I have found this certainly that it generates a first of all, a board story ideas, lots of intriguing things to pursue, but it also allows you to give your current story set in the current time.

Dave (19m 25s):
Those subtle anchors into a past that I think puts, makes a world seem more authentic, puts it in a continuum of a long history that I think gives it a sort of reverence or, or certainly, like I said, a, a certain authenticity. So I always enjoy immersing myself in that in some way. And I think, I think it makes stories better.

Jesper (19m 54s):
Oh, absolutely. I mean, the fact that you have developed the Worldbuilding details also allows you to, you know, you might drop a certain name, have a guilt or a group of something from, from the other country and neighboring country or something like that, but you would never have been able to do that without the Worldbuilding. And a lot of the times you don't even share the details about what that is, but to the reader, it just seems like, okay, this is a full world just to be right behind the horizon here. If I could just look at it, but I know it's there and it makes it a lot more immersive. Exactly, exactly. I think that's wonderful. And that, but maybe nowadays, at least we were talking about technology or a moment ago, and now a days we have a lot of online possibilities to document our World in a Worldbuilding Bible in an online fashion many, many years ago.

Jesper (20m 44s):
I used obsidian portal for a bit. And I think Archivos is probably a very similar, in many ways. But apart from documenting it online, I think one of the real benefits of something like Archivos, it's the links between things 'cause, you don't have to scroll through a million documents if you can. I think click your way through, right. It is from character's two places and to stop the hooks. And so, yeah,

Dave (21m 8s):
Exactly. Yeah. And then, and that's very much the experience that we wanted a your, your, you, you create a character. I mean, you start by creating a single story element and it can be a character or an organization, a place in an event, whatever. And that, that's how it always starts with one thing. And then this other thing, they did this event. Okay. So now we have an event and then you connect that that event took place at a location. Well, I need to, I need a story element for that. And now you've got this continuity between this character, this event in this location, and then other characters participated in them in that event.

Dave (21m 48s):
Other events happened to that location and you get this rich sense of context of, of, of history and perspective on the key elements of your story that I think as a writer gives you a much clearer grip on how those elements impact your story.

Jesper (22m 14s):
Yeah. And then probably also the other thing I think from a creative point of view is that once you start connecting those dots, that sometimes where you get a sperm of inspiration or something else, Oh, by the way, if I could not be something starts, then that makes a whole new level of stuff that could happen. Right?

Dave (22m 32s):
Exactly. Or, wow, this guy, this, these two characters were at the same location at the same time. And I never mentioned that in this story from a continuity standpoint, that would be something you'd want to put in there. And the fact that they do engage, how does that affect your narrative? How does that change the stories? Is it cool? Excellent. Keep going and find more. Yeah,

Jesper (22m 56s):
Indeed. And then, and so it is almost, I mean, one thing is documenting your World But, but it's also like a brainstorming tool. Almost

Dave (23m 4s):
It very much is it very much is. And, and like I said, it's, it's an opportunity to see those connections that, that network of association within the story elements of your, your story's of your knowledge. And this is the thing that it just excites me the most about this is that, you know, history is just a story that actually happened. So you can take actual historical eras epox and put them into Archivos and use that as a reference for, you know, if you were doing an alternate history or if you're doing, you know, an urban fantasy and it set in a specific time, and you want to incorporate actual historical events, you can load those in as well and have that service.

Dave (23m 49s):
Oh, crap. This is when a Kennedy is shot or, you know, this is when this thing happened or whatever. And now suddenly you're anchoring your narratives within the actual World history. And you can have a sense of, of confidence that you are doing so accurately.

Jesper (24m 9s):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But so you mentioned There of course you can document your characters, your places, and you know, those story elements, their, but is there, are there things that, that is Archivos was, can do maybe that is a bit more, should we call it a nice or good compared to what you could say? Yeah, yeah, indeed.

Dave (24m 30s):
We have, we basically have three views within the application. We've got the story web, which just shows you the connection of everything. Characters, events, organizations, places, all of that. We also have the living map, which allows storytellers to upload a map of a country, upload the map of the city of Boulder, a map of a building a and then tag elements on that map. So you can see where this event happened or this city is in this country. And then allowing you to drill down from, from a country view down to a city view down to a neighborhood viewer, what have you.

Dave (25m 9s):
So you've got this, this massive sense of geographical continuity a for your narrative. And then you've got the timeline, which we were talking about earlier, as essential to making sure that the sequence of things unfolds a nice, so you get to see the overlap because events can take place over several days, a battle or something, and you'll be able to see, you know, where the various events of your story are overlapping. Are you putting a character in two places at the same time, that would be bad. A Archivos to let you see that. So lots of visualization tools were actually in the process of expanding the app in a couple of ways.

Dave (25m 55s):
One of them allowing people to create their own custom story elements types. We, we took this big 40,000 foot view, and we just want like characters organizations, places, a, a very broad categories of story out on the type. And we've gotten a lot of feedback from people saying, yes, but I want a creatures story element type. I want a story element type just for the Monster's in my world, right or wrong. Or if you're doing a, a, you know, Naval battle or a scifi ship than I want chips as a story on that time. So we're, we're currently developing a, the way to allow are storytellers to create your own story element types that customize it to their narrative, that they're telling custom relationships.

Dave (26m 43s):
Also, there were those connections, its not just a line between the two characters, a we allow you to define that line. So what a familial professional personal. But again, we took this very high level of view because trying to figure out what anybody and everybody wants is a nightmare. Cause everybody does stuff different. There would be this massively long list of all the different relationships types. So we are going to lie to create your own relationships too. So you can customize that list too, to tailor it towards your a narrative, the types of stories you're telling M and then the third thing we're doing is we're introducing a very intriguing, a tagging function where you can tag events or characters are whatever.

Dave (27m 30s):
For example, a chapter one, I want to tag this event in chapter one, and then you can do a filter to show me just the story elements in chapter one or a book one or whatever. You can have multiple tags and then filter and filter displays by those tag element's, which I think has really going to help a storyteller's be able to organize and group their story elements by whatever criteria they want to. But specifically, you know, what, what happened in chapter one? Okay, here's the chapter one story elements here, the events and the characters, yada, yada, I think that's going to help a lot in terms of being able to refine your vision of your story because as you, as you observed things like Lord of the rings get big quick, and I have found that to be true in Archivos as well as I'm writing, it's like, Ooh, and I need to put it in this and this and this and this network becomes, can become cumbersome.

Dave (28m 32s):
We've got a game of Thrones in there and when it first load's up, it's like, boom, boom, all these elements too. So being able to filter that is probably a good thing.

Jesper (28m 46s):
Yeah. And I noticed as well as that, I think you allow for quite a lot of pictures and stuff like that. So you can make it look nice as well. Isn't that right?

Dave (28m 55s):
Oh my goodness. Yes, we will definitely pictures. Ah, we, we talked earlier about how you, you, the iconography that you use or the symbols or the colors, what have you, we want it to make sure that you could upload images for the little avatar that appears, and also a big image in there, but then we added a gallery options. So if you've got a bunch of photo references for a place, for example, you can just upload all 20 or 30, however many you want they're right there at your fingertips. You can upload PDF's. So if you've got documents, have some kind or a text files, a you can add a link to audio or video files.

Dave (29m 37s):
So if there is a reference of some kind that exists in a different media format, you can link that to the profile for each story element. Yet we wanted to make sure that the storytellers could, whatever references they felt would inspire them in their storytelling, that they would be easily accessible within the Archivos framework. Definitely.

Jesper (30m 1s):
Yeah. Yeah. And of course that also allows it to be much more interesting for her. Like we talked about before for sharing a reader's and stuff like that, because we want to start looking nice. Then it becomes more than just this sort of online Vicky, like Wikipedia, where it just click around for different text elements, but all of a sudden it starts, it starts looking like a lot more than that.

Dave (30m 19s):
Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, I've even advocated, I started doing this with some of the escape artists Podcast podcasts are just a story as well. And you could actually put, you know, I I've been working on getting the Archivos podcast network loaded into Archivos won a novel idea, a and then he'd be able to link the episodes directly in the, in the, in the story elements of that narrative. So yeah, pretty much so, very much So. And, and, and again, those, those, those opportunities to engage with your readers, as much as you have found that every writer has found, there's a lot of material that ends up on the cutting room floor.

Dave (31m 8s):
There are scenes that get axed because they don't necessarily drive the narrative forward. There's a lot of deleted scenes in, in story. Writing, Archivos give you an opportunity to put those deleted scenes up. You can actually include them as that, that collateral material about a, a book or a story or a character, or what have you. So a lot of that story-telling that we as storytellers do that, the readers, our audiences don't necessarily always hear. Now you have a place that you could share that in the context of this as a deleted scene and it didn't make it. But if you want to read more about this event or this character, this is available to you.

Dave (31m 53s):
So it gives you that as well.

Jesper (31m 55s):
Hmm. And on the flip side of that, or you are also able to hide stuff that a for example, if readers get to the link, they can't see this in this pub. If you wanna keep it up.

Dave (32m 4s):
Yes. Most definitely there is a, All all elements as you create them are by default shown, but there is a check box for Hyde, this element. So for example, if you've got a new book coming out and you want to set up the Archivos setting to just bam expose all of these new characters and new elements to your story setting in Archivos, you can do that in advance, hide those elements. And then you go on release day or whatever, or maybe even to patrons, you know, just to have a limited group of individuals, you know, you have a mailing list, for example, you can make it so that only they can see that.

Dave (32m 45s):
So yeah, there's lots of opportunities to not only stage your story setting, but also schedule a and, and roll out elements of your story setting within the app.

Jesper (32m 59s):
Yeah. You mentioned APTA. So what does that mean? You can also do it on, on your phone and stuff like that. Or do you have to have access to a browser

Dave (33m 7s):
Now? We are, we are exclusively desktop. There are plans to actually, I think what we are going to end up having doing is after we complete this next round of development, I think we're going to look at doing a Kickstarter because we very much want to create an app for the phone and for the iPad or for tablets as well for phones and tablets. But as you seen in the app, Yesper a big, and it doesn't translate, it doesn't translate well to a phone display. So we need to revise the interface and do a lot of users, a dialogue to figure out what features need to be accessible within the phone, because the full feature set.

Dave (33m 51s):
It just, it doesn't make sense in that, in that tiny screen.

Jesper (33m 55s):
No, I agree. And I w w I mean, just take the example of a, a lot of the ring stuff. I mean, the, the, the connection map there is massive as well, and you don't want to do that on a screen, but I was more thinking into terms of, and, and of course you can take the system an idea if you wanted to know, but then I was more thinking and the way that 'cause, I think, as to create a or the Worldbuilding, I think you want to do it on a computer browser anyway, 'cause you need the biggest patience and you need to be able to see all those connection dots when you do the right to the different story elements, you know, you, I think it will, you will just be more comfortable doing at the computer versus versus on an app on the phone. But I was more thinking about the phone app as something for the audience.

Jesper (34m 35s):
Basically, I like the reader is stuff where you, you don't need all of this stuff that the writer basically needs, but more like, this is a way where I have an app on my phone, just going to use a dragon lands here, because I love that setting if I had a dragon lands app, and I could just like, open it up and check the character here and check that out. But maybe I don't can't see everything, but that would probably for a hardcore fans, that would be a lovely idea.

Dave (34m 59s):
Absolutely. I agree. And I could see, you know, a, a little, a little hamburger menu up in the corner where if you're looking at, you know, race, and then you can, you can flip a swipe with your, with your thumb, and here are all the story elements associated with race. And so you don't necessarily see the dynamic display, but those associations and the ability to navigate through them remains consistent. I like that. I think that's a great idea.

Jesper (35m 28s):
Yeah, yeah. That, that might be a good idea. I'll take it all. Or you can steal it. That's okay.

Dave (35m 35s):
Yeah. That too, the boys. Absolutely. Yeah. I'll give you a credit full credit.

Jesper (35m 40s):
All right. But is there anything else that, that I forgotten to ask you about around Archivos that you want to mention that

Dave (35m 47s):
No, no, this is a, this has been marvelous. I obviously, I'm not exactly a, a, a, a shy, retiring wallflower when it comes to talking about this thing. I do love this app and I'm

Jesper (35m 58s):
Calm and confident

Dave (36m 1s):
In its ability to help storytellers not necessarily tell better stories, but tell stories better. Hmm. Yeah. That's yeah, that just popped out of my head. I'm going to stick with that, that I like that. So, ah, no, I think, I think, I think we covered all the high points, but just to, just to reiterate that everybody does this differently and that needs to be, you know, I'm always, I'm always leery of someone mandating that this is the way something must be done. Creativity doesn't work that way. Humanity doesn't work that way, but a good tool as a tool that can adapt itself to your unique vision and perspective of your process.

Dave (36m 51s):
And that's very much what we tried to do with Archivos and are continuing to try to do is we continue to develop the app and try and make it a, a, a better and better tool.

Jesper (37m 1s):
Yeah. And, and you can, of course make it as complex as you want, as long as the creator or, or you can keep it as simple as you want. And I think that that's one of the nice things with it. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Okay. But I'll put a link to Archivos in the show notes for the listeners. If they want to go and check it out, then they can spend it. Thank you. And if there's anything else that you want to meet a link to Dave in the us, you know, just emailed it to me and then I'll put it in there as well.

Dave (37m 27s):
Yeah. I mean, my, my, my voice acting website is buttery man. So yeah, it will throw. Yeah, definitely. I, I will, I will link to you. I will. I will email you. Thank you.

Jesper (37m 39s):
All right. All right. And then I want to thank day for joining me today and the, the listener than a Autumn, we'll be back next week. And we will try to have one of our usual good topics available for you.

Narrator (37m 53s):
If you liked what you just heard. There is a few things that you can do to support The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast. Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. You can also join Autumn in Jesper on for as little as a dollar a month. You'll get awesome rewards and keep The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast going to stay safe out there and see you next Monday.

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