It's time for one of Autumn and Jesper's very entertaining episodes.
This time they have prepared competing lists of the WORST characters they've ever encountered in either works of fiction or movies and TV series.
Tune in to episode 136 of the Am Writing Fantasy and judge who you think have the best of the worst listed.
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Read the full transcript below. (Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion).
You're listening to The Am writing Fantasy Podcast in today's publishing landscape, you can reach fans all over the world. Query letters are a thing of the past. You don't even need an literary agent. There is nothing standing in the way of making a living from writing. Join two best selling authors who have self published more than in 20 books between them now onto the show with your hosts, Autumn Birt and Jesper Schmidt.
Hello, I am Jesper
And I'm Autumn.
This episode 136 of the am writing fantasy podcast. And you know, I always love these top 10 episodes.
Oh, they are definitely some of the most fun ones that we recorded. I have to admit that I'm rather enjoyed them as well. And today we've created two competing lists, five entries, each of the Worst Characters EVER. And I just confessed to you before we started recording that if it wasn't for a sheer chance of luck, I mean, I meant to go into where we keep our podcast list and check it sooner, but kind of checked out this morning because we have another reason. And I made me realize that like, oh, I have to come up with five characters. So I kind of queried my parents.
Autumn (1m 26s):
So, oh my God, I cheated. None of them are actually helpful, but they helped get my mind going as well as the last minute panic, that always helps us procrastinators. So, so you don't probably relate to that, but yeah, I feel my list is pretty solid. I even put it in order, so I'm ready. I'm ready.
Jesper (1m 54s):
Okay. Okay. Well, I com very, very prepared. So I have some really annoyed characters that I can't wait to do.
Autumn (2m 3s):
I'm guessing here them, you knowing what you've come prepared with.
Jesper (2m 7s):
Yeah. So of course I had some sound clips because it makes it a little funnier to listen to all the podcasts listeners as well.
Autumn (2m 14s):
So one day I swear, I will come prepared enough to have emailed you some sound clips to play for me. What I ask you, that will be pretty cool, but that would be M I deserve a cooky if I do know, but I already feel bad about it because the last time we had the top 10 last month, yeah.
Jesper (2m 33s):
You came really prepared and you, and of course, I do like to know when the S lists and the last month you came so prepared that I was a bit nervous already from the start of that. I have a better list of you, but now that you are saying, you, you only realize that this morning, I feel much better already.
Autumn (2m 52s):
Hey, yeah. We'll have the sea I'm so curious have,
Jesper (2m 55s):
well, I actually, I have one on my list that I think he'll have as well, and he has a mention for me.
Autumn (3m 3s):
Okay. I'm curious to see if we end up with the same and I try to keep everything actually related to fantasy slash superhero. I tried to actually keep it all in general. So all that. So I didn't do that. I just thought of the most annoying characters I could think of. So I know almost dude, but I decide to go for the extra challenge of in John.
Jesper (3m 24s):
Okay. Okay. Well that is pretty cool. I will admit that, but it also means that all this stuff probably not overlap well, that's good, but ah, thank you for admitting.
Autumn (3m 33s):
I did extra late minute, last minute homework.
Jesper (3m 36s):
So, oh yeah. That, that, that's pretty cool. You are in a few points for that, but yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well that that's all right. So I already start the head. That's all that matters. So things over their, for you. Well, good. We have 30 degrees this weekend. We know that Celsius in 86, 90 Fahrenheit, something like that. Yeah. So we spent the entire Saturday at the beach and that was pretty varied because we do with the new apartment, we lived like a hundred meters from the beach. So it was that that's pretty lovely. But I also have to admit that we actually are starting to wish to move back into a house.
Autumn (4m 19s):
Well, I bet I've surely a small part, but as much as it's nice to have that closer to the ocean, there's nothing living in a small cabin as I do. I would give anything for like my own office space and to be able to close a door and stuff like that.
Jesper (4m 34s):
So yeah, I know. I'm sure you're feeling the pinch right now. I am the, that, there's just a, I mean the, the, the neighbor or the area here is really nice, but it's, there's just not enough space in here in this apartment. So, but, but we had a building plot in, in mind this well where we all want to build new housing, but actually some new challenges of surfaced because the city council start to make plans about putting a road right next to the place where we, we want to build a house. So that's not good. Know there is a town hall meeting this Thursday. So I'll attempt that and try to learn a bit more.
Jesper (5m 15s):
But if they do end up building the road where they talking about billing road at the end, that there's no decision made yet, but that's what they're talking about. But if they do do that, then, well, we need to find the alternatives. And honestly, I don't know where that should be. So that at the end of the day, the challenge here is that we want to build a house close enough for the kids to be able to go to school, you know, by themselves, are you using the bicycle or something like that? And if you get too far away, that's not no longer possible. Right? So that limits sort of our options, but it's just, it's just politicians being weird. 'cause this particular route where they apply that they're talking about building the road, what's actually looked at like three years back and it was discarded as a possible route road back then, because it goes straight through a forest where there's also an endangered species of bats living.
Jesper (6m 13s):
So write. And then all of the sudden the politician sorta put it back under the table and say, well, let's build a road there. And then of course, a lot of people started complaining because there's also people living in that area already on one thing is of course the endangered species. But the other thing is that it goes straight past the neighborhood where people live, right? So people started complaining and then the M the mayor of this town, she was like, wondering why, why is people complaining about this road? And the, I mean, nobody has ever, ever said that it was a problem before and so on and so on. And it's like, well, maybe that nobody's complaining 'cause this was this God of three years ago. So nobody thought it would ever happen, but I don't know.
Jesper (6m 55s):
This has just politicians being politicians. All right. Well, you make no sense or they're an alien species. That's why we never talked politics. That's true. We don't want to go there. I know. Right. How about you? How are things going on your side of the Atlantic?
Autumn (7m 16s):
Oh, it's been good. It was fun. My husband came home for like a week and a couple of days, and he's back off to a rafting guiding. And actually he even ref guided when he was here at a place, it was only 45 minutes south. So I got to see him before he ran off again, all of a sudden, but we've had some beautiful weather. It was like a perfect week where it was just in the seventies. Cool enough Knights that you actually need a blanket. And it was lovely. And then, you know, as soon as you left it, like hit the high eighties with super huge high humidity. It felt like, it felt like when I was in Mexico in the times, I've traveled to like Mexico in Acapulco, in Costa Rica where you wake up in the morning and the CSR has still.
Autumn (7m 59s):
And so that humidity off the ocean is just sitting on top of you. And you're like, oh my gosh, I can't imagine what it's going to be like at three in the afternoon. But by then the sea breeze kicks up and it's so much better. But those mornings where everything is still and damp, when you hold up a piece of paper and it kind of goes, whew, it's fin it's, it's just damp. I've always wanted to live on a sailboat. And I said, I won't ever get another sailboat. Cause I've had too in my life. And I went once a third, but I said, I wouldn't get one until I can live on it and travel on it. And so as much as I want to there's days make up that humid.
Jesper (8m 38s):
And you're like, oh, I don't know if I could do this 24 7.
Autumn (8m 44s):
No, we actually, we got that problem solved. After traveling for four years across the country, we have repeaters and cell phone towers. If you are sailing in the middle of the ocean, well, that's in the middle of the ocean. Most of the time you are around land though. That's only like a one to two week window. So that I'm not that worried about those times. You do too many crossings.
Jesper (9m 4s):
Oh my God. I would never want to live on a boat. I'm where two luxury minded to do this. One of my couch, all of those things.
Autumn (9m 12s):
And shower's, and you could have, you just have the download the Netflix before you go, and then he can just binge watch. So that as well, the other person's at the tiller. Yeah, but still there's no showers and this again, so it has a good, but how shower?
Jesper (9m 29s):
Yeah. If you have a luxury boats, maybe that most of the sail boats I have been on, I wouldn't go for it or anything that can cross the Atlantic has got to have a shower, even if your, on the back. So that's what it is that you want to have ahead and a bathroom.
Autumn (9m 45s):
So I, I think my adventure itch honestly, is acting up a little bit. I've been good ever since my husband got back from whitewater rafting and lost like 20 pounds, we've been getting up even earlier. I mean, he's getting up at like four 30 and I'm getting up about 5, 5, 15 in the morning. And every other day I get to go for a run. And the next day I usually do some yoga in some stretch exercises. And I am feeling so much better. Suddenly I'm feeling much better. And all my gosh, I just want to go hiking again. I want to a, I want to get all my motorcycle, which we don't have here. Cause we don't have enough room for it and I wanted to sell those.
Jesper (10m 22s):
So I think that if you have Kevin fever, all the, all the editing and you're just sitting around and, and Kevin editing books all the time, you are drawing.
Autumn (10m 31s):
I mean, I have gotten some wonderful and working on some wonderful M book covers and fantasy map. So that's lovely. But at, I love every day I wake up and think, oh, I'm so lucky I get to do this, but I have to admit, you know, they just opened up the Inca trail and as a new trail down in Peru, I want to do so. I don't like, we need to get those out of my system sometime soon. Or I'm going to just send you a note saying, run off to and talk me through and I'll see if they have a VPN down there, but the otherwise see you, you sounds good.
Narrator (11m 8s):
Oh, we go all the internet with the yam Writing Fantasy Podcast,
Jesper (11m 13s):
We have something quite exciting to mention. Mmm. And I don't know, perhaps it's the summer heat getting to us all the cabin fever or something like that, who knows, but at something, something is getting too. And if you work out what it is, let us know because we don't know how the sales, but you send me more. Yeah. What we decided to offer everyone on our email list, a massive discount to be used on either of our two flagship courses. Yeah. So within the next three to four weeks or thereabouts, we are going to email out a voucher code giving probably I think it's going to be 150 off the, off our two courses.
Jesper (11m 59s):
Yeah. Maybe you could just explain a bit about what are these two courses that you just don't know that I always like to drive, stuff like that all on you. And you're like how you build a website. So you talk about it.
Narrator (12m 10s):
These are our two premium courses. So we have the ultimate fantasy writer's guide, which is our first one. We put, well, actually M what's in the name of our first one we put out, but this is our first premium one we put out. And it is a 12 module, complete course of knowledge of how to develop an idea and right. Well, but then how to edit market, build a platform, how to format, how to upload to Amazon because, oh my gosh, have you have not done that yet?
Autumn (12m 38s):
There's times where it's not that hard, but the first time it's like, well, there was a lot of what, what is this? I got to Google what they're talking about. So it covers all of that and then how to keep growing your author platform. So that's a one-stop shop, everything that you need to know about developing an author business and becoming a writer, which I think that's a pretty good start for courses. But then we decided we wanted to do a world-building course. And this is a, this is the one that you've been following along. And the podcast that took us oh, two and a half years. Yeah. It was massive. Massive, which I don't want to say that because I don't want people to be like afraid of taking the course, of course, oh my God, this massive, it's massive.
Autumn (13m 21s):
It's actually wonderful. And incredibly well organized. And you don't have to do every video. There's like these optional places and extra information. And it's just wonderful. I mean, it takes you from again, the Colonel of you, how to start with the current, all of the story, you can develop one as you do it, but it helps you develop a world. Worldbuilding a story along with the world that the two are intertwined and inseparable and unique and just wonderful. And that it teaches you, you know, all the components you need to build that world to fit the story so that you don't get lost with worlds builders, disease, or just lost in your own world for six years, we, we try to not have to be too bad, actually.
Autumn (14m 3s):
That's well, I guess if it's a portal there and it's a world where you can at least be an avatar that could kick, but that would be a good option. Pretty good at that would to cure my itchy feet. And actually, so if anyone that has a little bit of sitting around letting me know, but otherwise you can take the course and learn to build a world and develop your story and all the components so that when you're done, you know, we have an amazing world. You have a story that you are ready to write, to go with it. And then the final modules actually go into how to weave the two together without info dumping, how to bring the story to life in different ways so that you can really engage the reader.
Autumn (14m 47s):
And I think that if you're a writer and you are worldbuilding and you just really want to bring out something amazing, I think it's a fantastic course. We have used it and test, we ran it ourself for our world have Alyssa, so we know how it works and it's pretty darn good. So those are two primary courses and it'll teach you everything like creating cultures, creating history, creating groups in Coles and gills and the magic systems and maps. Everything is so we did.
Jesper (15m 17s):
So. Yeah. So if any of that interests you and you would like a massive discount, then we will include a link in the show notes that from where you can just add in your email address, because then you're going to get on our email list.
Autumn (15m 33s):
And then you're also going to get that email. When we send out the voucher code, you can simply use that one and get the course at a very low price.
Jesper (15m 43s):
That's pretty cool.
Autumn (15m 45s):
I think that's fantastically cool. Yeah. We must be a little crazy this summer.
Jesper (15m 50s):
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what happened, but the thing is that these courses are self-paced as well. So you can dip in and out as you please, and you can of course do it from the safety of your own home
Narrator (16m 4s):
Now onto today's topic.
Jesper (16m 8s):
So we agreed that this top 10 list of the worst case, the characters ever B from the books that we read, or it could also be from movies we've seen.
Autumn (16m 23s):
And that probably also means that since we're not going with some of the past top 10 list, we made, we create something completely made up. In this case, we are actually using characters that exist either in written works or in movie. So that means that may be some listeners. Will it disagree with us here? All them?
Jesper (16m 40s):
I think that they might.
Autumn (16m 42s):
I, yeah, I know it was funny cause I did Google some other list and there was a few characters. I was like, you know that character, I hate that. So I expect some disagreement. I expect someone to say, no, no, no, there are Worst Characters, but these are the ones that are near or not. So near and dear to my heart, I suppose I, I chose ones that were worse for a variety of reasons, maybe a little illustrative of some points. And so I went kind of along those lines. So their worst for not just their actions or just poor acting, I avoided poor acting just to give people a break.
Autumn (17m 22s):
And I have to admit, I didn't choose any book ones just because of the character. Was that bad. I most likely didn't finish the book unless they were just like a tertiary character in the background. And I promptly just erase them from my mind.
Jesper (17m 36s):
And that's when normally deal with these top 10 list. We are trying to come up with the best worst list. But in the end we also have to work out who actually won all them.
Autumn (17m 48s):
All right. Well have to see which one we came up with that I remember I got some bonus points for sticking to genre. So I'm already ahead.
Jesper (17m 55s):
As we get off the started off the gate, you said a small bonus point, but I can hear you all the way to make it like into boneless points.
Autumn (18m 6s):
I did. So we can hear that. So this is what happens in you gave Kyla Fe anything.
Jesper (18m 13s):
Yeah, that, that is true. But we also, I think you, even though I try to prepare, well for this episode, M I also have to say that that was actually quite hard because I wanted to try to find characters that were so bad that they basically made me want to stop watching the movie or the series.
Autumn (18m 36s):
So when it's that bad, you know, that you've got the worst of the worst, but on the other hand, it was also pretty difficult to find the ones that are truly that bad.
Jesper (18m 47s):
Yes. I agree. I've watched some really bad movies, as we've mentioned in previous podcasts on worst list where I, I binge watched all over the streets, signs theater 2000. You're like, why did you brought your brain with those? But they were fantastically horrible, but yeah, defying characters. And especially to you then to try to remember these characters that I absolutely let you know, spark some kind of level of hate where I didn't just forget them.
Autumn (19m 17s):
It actually wasn't that easy. But I think that there's a few worst characters I could have probably chosen if I thought longer, had more time, but I feel very satisfied with my list. It is the good illustrative example list.
Jesper (19m 36s):
OK. Well, I still feel like that because you weren't, that you have not as prepared as me. I, I have to say I have to win this one. Otherwise I'll feel disappointed, but we'll see how it goes. So, so who's starting out here with number five.
Autumn (19m 50s):
I think I started, or you started last time to be honest, which is unusual for <inaudible>, but I'm trying to be nice to you. So I guess that was my turn to go first, if you would like okay. T
Jesper (20m 3s):
han, than come with your number five.
Autumn (20m 5s):
All right. I'll have at it. So my least of the worst is actually Sabrina Spellman from the chilling adventures of Sabrina, which is a Netflix remake from the books of Sabrina, the teenage witch.
Jesper (20m 22s):
Ah, and I said, it's that new one? Is it is the new, I heard some very bad things about this series. Yeah, cool.
Autumn (20m 31s):
I chose her, but honestly the entire cast, again, not for the acting, but for the roles and the plot and just all there were just so pathetic except for two characters that were two, I actually liked, which was in bros and prudence. And there's a part in the second series, which I began watching and that it was just so bad. I turned it off saying, I never want to see this again. But there was a point where they were tagged teeing off to go and hunt down the former head teacher eval dude. And I'm like, Darren, that I could watch a spin off of the two of them as hunters.
Autumn (21m 12s):
You know, they were fantastic. But the rest of that, I was just rooting for more deaths. I think more of them needed to talk to me so badly. I can't even get into what was horrible. It's just, it was so, so tropish, they're just teenagers make me, I don't know, but I really afford them. So it was just like annoying in the way that you couldn't put your finger on. Yeah. Just bad. The characters themselves we're in very deep, the smells were pathetic. Ah, the Forsythe was horrible. They make stupid mistakes just to keep the plot running.
Autumn (21m 52s):
Things were inconsistent about them from one episode to the next. And it was just so again, a lot of it was bad writing, but just there was no substance and there was nothing in the character I really wanted to root for. I didn't care if devil sucked her down to how it would have been fine. It would have been more interested. Maybe she would know, learn the lesson. I was so pathetic. There was a boyfriend that bounced back and forth in a really stupid love triangle that I just wanted to lb my head against the wall. She cured her best. Friend's Brian blindness. After not being able to cure it after curing it, not carrying it. I was just know, I couldn't guess it was a mess.
Jesper (22m 34s):
It wasn't that, that sounds a bit like, it, it almost sounds like a bit of like, it's the series that is bad.
Autumn (22m 40s):
And I mean the characters as well, but it sounds like the series as a whole, this just as bad as the character. Let's just say when the wrote, the second part of the series starts out that they're trying to go to hell to rescue Sabrina's boyfriend. And not only is it super easy to get into hell after a whole first season where they could never find the way there and demons were trying to rise up to earth and ends up like a doorway, they can go, but it ended up mimicking the wizard of Oz and all the way down to the tin man and the Lyon. And that's where I have said, no, just done done. If you lack of imagination, just know. And if anyone out there that likes it, just tell me why, because I don't care how bad it was.
Autumn (23m 25s):
Horrible, horrible writing, but you know, the characters too, the characters were just, they lacked any depth and I just couldn't do it.
Jesper (23m 37s):
Okay. Well, I have not watched that series, but now I know what, I'm not gonna watch that either double dog area. No, thank you.
Autumn (23m 47s):
Good answer. I did that to my husband once and he still blames me for getting sick off of a piece of chocolate. I told him he doesn't have to take the double dog, the air cheese.
Jesper (24m 0s):
Okay. So I haven't learned to find that as well. Yeah. You hear it. I'm going to stop out strong here. This character is the most irritating and up noxious character that I've ever come across. Well, this is gonna be good. Bad, good. That she was actually the first one I thought of for my list here today. She truly made me want to stop watching. Wow. And you've probably watched friends all from have a you, I have, it's been years. I am not a friend's worshiper.
Jesper (24m 43s):
Unfortunately. Fortunately, if you, if you can remember, what is the worst character in the cast of friends that you can think of?
Autumn (24m 52s):
Maybe Phoebe, I know it's been so long. You listened to this sound clip. And then just telling me that this was not annoying. All right.
Character 1 (25m 2s):
The me Chandler bang. Oh no, I don't seek me out something deep in your so called out to me. Like, you want me, you hate me. You can't live without me. And you know, it, you just don't no, you know it so
Jesper (25m 34s):
Well, that is Janice. Littmann from my friend and from friends and my, that character is just so incredibly annoying. It's that meeting.
Autumn (25m 43s):
I can honestly say I do not remember watching an episode with her in it. So obviously I did not watch all the episodes, but that, that actually reminds me if I show that again, I'd probably could of used that character, but I can't remember the name of the show. It has been. So white-listed from my brain and despair, my S entity. Right?
Jesper (26m 6s):
So at what else? She, well, she was just so incredibly annoying, but it's like both the way she speaks and she is so stupid as well. She has. And does you don't understand that the, the people don't know sort of like what she does and, and her laugh is so annoying that it's incredible and it's just made like that on purpose obviously, but it, it really works in the sense that I have to come up with list of characters that actually make me want to stop watching. That was her CHITAS she's annoying. So I think that is a pretty good stat for number five, but that is a pretty good start for now have five, like you said, it does it remind me now we have some show. I did watch, he had the character, had that exact same accent.
Jesper (26m 47s):
And that was kind of like, I'm not watching this, I don't care. I'm not doing it, but yeah, I know. I can't remember what it was. Sorry.
Autumn (26m 55s):
So I can't even bring up her name, but yeah, that's the, that's a pretty bad one.
Jesper (27m 1s):
Yeah, pretty bad.
Autumn (27m 2s):
Okay. So your number for my number four is actually syndrome from the Incredibles. I don't know if you watch that. So that's the animated cartoon. I love animation because I actually studied it when I lived in Manchester, UK. And So I just, that was the whole time stuff with paper and pencils and all my gosh, but they can do that with computers was amazing, but syndrome annoys me because I like powerful villains with cold hearts and decisive actions. And he's just nothing. He is still, and he's got a good backstory, but even up until the present day, when he was trying to kill off superheroes, he's doing it because he is the whiny little kid who wants to be a superhero in just isn't good enough.
Autumn (27m 46s):
And he's still not good enough. And he dies stupidly and it's just blah, but it's just not so much. It's not what I want in the villain. And I think when you have a really bad villain that it ruins a lot of the story, a lot of that you could have a really fantastic character. And if they're up against a squishy Villa and you're like what, you're wasting them. So I just found syndrome just pathetic. Hmm. Okay. I don't know. Honestly, I don't know it, but, but it is important that we, we have talked about over and over again, the importance of having strong villains. So it definitely destroys the story of there's just this really both week.
Jesper (28m 30s):
So annoying the villain. And I could say something about a villain in the last star wars movies, but I'm probably not going to go there because then somebody will jump on the and kill me. So we do not touch start wars secret.
Autumn (28m 45s):
Okay. So let's go on to your number four of them.
Jesper (28m 49s):
Okay. Now, before I have another clip repaired here.
Autumn (28m 52s):
Oh, of course.
Jesper (28m 53s):
Yes, of course. I have a clip from all five. Of course its going to bring home victory bonus points. Yeah. The way that sort of a, I actually canceled out of your bone is pointing. Gives that to me. I think,
Autumn (29m 9s):
I don't think so. Lets hear.
Jesper (29m 11s):
Okay. So in this scene, one of my favorite characters of this show has just been picked up by the character that I really don't like. So are you going to hear of a male voice and a woman in this clip and the it's the woman that I don't like.
Autumn (29m 30s):
Jesper (29m 30s):
But I'll explain it afterwards. So you have just listened to it. I don't think you can guess who this is to be honest, but just to have a list and I'll explain
Character 2 (29m 42s):
The walking for days, thank God you came alone, but are you going to America, New York? He's yours. This is the one of going family there. I know
Jesper (30m 1s):
We need to find this man Dr. Sue rest, or you know what series that is from know I do not that doesn't ring a bell at all now it's from heroes and how has it? Yeah. And so I don't know if I have watched that now, but you say that well, that's actually a pretty good series'. So in this scene and the male voice is Skylar, who is like a really like bad-ass character. And I really like him and he's just been picked up by this woman called Maya and M Maya is just like the opposite of skylight.
Jesper (30m 45s):
And that the problem I have with her is that she always comes across as so incredibly helpless and she's never able to sort of work out herself what's she supposed to do with it. So she always depends on the other characters to sort of take her hand and lead her down the path of wherever whatever's gonna happen. And of course at the same thing applies to in our writing a you don't want to see characters that doesn't know how to think for themselves because those characters just so annoying. And I really got quite worked up this my character and to be honest. And so you just ruined every single episode she was in than unfortunately, and the latest season she's in their quite a lot.
Autumn (31m 32s):
And that's funny you say that. Cause a lot of that, the list that I saw, they listed a different character. Jenny Wisley was actually listed quite a lot for the exact same reasons. It's like she never does anything. Her like biggest fame is that she marries Harry Potter for whatever reason. And no one's like she cast spells in the entire show. She breaks into the chamber of secrets and they find her sleeping on the floor. I mean, she's just the static. And so that was a huge reader, no know to have the character that is just never manages to stand up on her or his own two feet that we indeed, and that it's so annoying to watch or read for that matter.
Jesper (32m 18s):
It's just like that again. And I think Maya is that like this in my era character, who is the perfect example of what I don't want in characters. So let's say that the top hop number too. So that's pretty, or the number four I should say. All right. So I was only in number four. I still have the ones left. So the blowing you out all the water and only just started.
Autumn (32m 40s):
Wow. So think, all right, you ready from my number three then?
Jesper (32m 44s):
Autumn (32m 44s):
So this one, I didn't even have any problem thinking of it's a character. I really don't like, and that is Bella's Swan from the Twilight series.
Jesper (32m 57s):
Oh my gosh.
Autumn (32m 58s):
So you agree then?
Jesper (32m 60s):
So I did not put her on my and this, but I could have yes,
Autumn (33m 4s):
I despised her and I mean, not just the movies, I read the books and I read the books purposely because they were so popular and I wanted them to know why, you know, what in the writing was so right. And I read the books despite Bella Swan, because I absolutely hated her. She was just, I don't even know where to start, but she needed a big dose of like growing up really fast, being a lot less, less self absorbed stuff. Wishy washy over Edward versus, oh the nine. You can't remember the name of that, Jacob. Yeah. Yeah. I know it just and what was worst for the books in the movie?
Autumn (33m 46s):
You could almost put up with it because the character's, you know, it's a movie you're watching things. That's a little less internal. The books is written in first-person and so you are literally in her head for three quarters of a novel and it's just the novels. I read the whole series. Oh, it's just, you feel icky. I'm sorry. I have felt icky after reading her chapters, I was just, you know, dunk me in an ocean so I can clean myself off. I did not like her at all. No one actually, you know, saying that it is slightly strange to think about 'cause we talk a lot about the importance of making good characters in, how, how do you make of characters and what makes them likable and how it's important and so on.
Autumn (34m 29s):
And then when you think of something like bill, this one and how massive the success that Ceres has been, the main character that is not likable at all. And that, that is a bit counter intuitive. I don't understand that to me. Well, I know obviously there's a lot of people who either relate to her or a, like the ropes of this series despite her, but oh, I don't know her. So we're going to get a lot of listeners on our back here for just like that. That was used to use characters ever. But if you think she is Y tell me what about her resonates with you? Because admittedly, I was a tomboy. I have motorcycles. I played with matchboxes.
Autumn (35m 9s):
I don't get the whole, I've never been romantic, like oohing over someone my entire life. That may be my husband, but I don't get it. I don't get her at all. She makes me want to smack her upside the head and tell her to grow up and you know, go and dig a ditch in Africa and we'll talk later.
Jesper (35m 29s):
Well, that is a good number three. All of them. I can agree with that one.
Autumn (35m 34s):
You put for me that that's the point.
Jesper (35m 36s):
That's okay. That's a good one.
Autumn (35m 39s):
Jesper (35m 39s):
Okay. Number three, here is email more annoying than Jen is Littmann. Oh, so this is a bit of a blast from the past and you can probably recognize it because I think there's a good chance that you also like me watched the series growing up. Okay. Well, I tried to watch it because back then we didn't have any streaming services. So you watched whatever was on TV. And yet, even though this was the only thing that was on this character annoyed me so much that I would rather do nothing than watching more of this series. So I'm just going to play this little sound clip here.
Jesper (36m 21s):
And I think you might be able to guess it is.
Character 3 (36m 31s):
Would you look at this? You know, I think Ms. Ellie had this wallpaper in south fork.
Jesper (36m 38s):
Okay, I'm going to stop it. There is, oh, I can't take how loud and annoying her voice is. I can you recognize that?
Autumn (36m 46s):
I recognize it and I cannot think of the show, but I do recognize it.
Jesper (36m 53s):
I have seen it in the cities as you tell me, like, oh yeah, it's the non-issue right. It's it's from,
Autumn (37m 1s):
oh, that's right. Oh, she is so annoying,
Jesper (37m 4s):
but it's not only her nasal voice that makes this character really annoying. It's also that constant relationship building between her character and Mr. Scheffel that just shot of it goes up and I know the down and blah, blah, blah. And the round and round, it's just getting on my nerves.
Autumn (37m 20s):
It's like, when it's like plotted off of a soap opera where it's like today, you don't take Tuesday and it's all just please make up your mind. Either love each other. We hate each other. We don't do both. It's so annoying, but that is really, really fight that character. And I'm also starting to think that you don't like that New York, New Jersey accent, but maybe I'm wrong.
Jesper (37m 41s):
Maybe. I don't know. I have never thought about that, but maybe, I don't know.
Autumn (37m 44s):
I, at least I say that because I know my husband a, that is an accent. He's got a Boston Kennedy accent and he says, cause and stuff like that. So it's about the opposite of New York. They have a good rivalry with New York. Boston does. So he's pointed out at quite a lot of like that. So that she's definitely annoying. Why are you ready for that? I don't know if you watched this series yet, but Sheldon Samson, AKA utopia in Jupiter's legacy, which is a new Netflix one. So you don't watch a lot of superheros ones. So I didn't think you would watch this one, but if you don't like superhero movies in this has a very good back story and I actually really enjoy the in series, but he, the archetypical character of he's just a bit too, God-fearing a bit too pro USA.
Autumn (38m 48s):
Democracy loves you, you know, just how he's too perfect. He's too rigid. He's just too, this is the way things have to be in. And this has democracy and we're going to protect it. And we're going to allow what people to make horrible choices and not take that away from them because they're allowed to make free choices. And it's just like gagged me so that I can not take, I would definitely, I've always joked. I would be a super villain, but I'd probably do something good. It ended up being one of the superheroes, but I just can't take that level of patriotic, red, white, and blue. And I'm American. I'm just know gray.
Autumn (39m 27s):
There is so pure. And I have like characters with flaws. I'd like characters with doubts. I like characters that question. I love this clever, clever character. And when you're that Ridgid, you're not clever. Or you just see with blinders on. And I just don't like them. And there's a couple of characters that I could of used for this one. Jean grey in X-Men it's very similar. She's like the way to goody two-shoes captain America. Well, no, no, no, no, no, no. And it seems like it's a superhero trope where you have the perfect one. I mean his name utopia. It's just know, I, I just can't do that. I want flaws.
Autumn (40m 8s):
I want weaknesses, not weaknesses that you're just so perfect. And you're upset. The rest of the world can not match your perfection.
Jesper (40m 17s):
Yeah know, I agree. And it's, it's so tough because we were talking so much about the is a very important like characters or the, the importance of making a good characters in them. And then we come up with a ton of these are really annoying ones, but yes, there are out of the word though.
Autumn (40m 46s):
Okay. Your number too.
Jesper (40m 50s):
Yeah. So This is, well, this next one is one of those characters where I just couldn't wait for another character to kill him.
Autumn (41m 0s):
It sounds like my number one. And I wonder if we we'll have a match. He's a real little Pete that is exceedingly statistic.
Jesper (41m 11s):
Okay. This may be, imagine. So it sounds like my name is one of the worst and also most unlikeable characters that I can think of.
Autumn (41m 19s):
Okay. I can't wait to hear this.
Jesper (41m 22s):
And I also found on the internet that ranker, you know, that the internet service that sort of ranks different things, they actually did an online poll asking who the most hated character in T V history was at this character was by file on the top of that list. Oo. All right. So he is a spoiled Brett that makes my life miserable for everyone else. And why don't I just play the clip here? And then you can tell me who this is.
Autumn (41m 52s):
character 4 (41m 53s):
My mother wishes me. Join the Knights, watch stripped all the titles and polished. You would solve the room in Pomona in takes up on my lady, sons. I was begged mercy for her father, but that have a soft hots of woman. So long as I have your king tree's in shall never go on punished. So in and bring me in my head.
Jesper (42m 27s):
That is right. Yes I can. 'cause this one is my number one. So it said free marathon.
Autumn (42m 35s):
Yes. Oh yeah. That was when you said, you said oil brats make everyone's life. Hell yup. Rooting for him to di oh, we could not die painfully in fast enough.
Jesper (42m 48s):
Yeah. But actually very honest. And I'm very being very honest here. All right. It is very, very rarely wear. I have watched a series where I actually like, not like, oh, it would be nice if this character disappeared or you sort of, but actually rooting for somebody to kill him.
Autumn (43m 7s):
I can remember almost that ever happening until this character showed up and game of Thrones Christ he's in my husband said I almost the exact same thing. He's like, he loves game of Thrones, which is really cool because he doesn't watch a lot of fantasy with me. And except for that. So he's like, what's, that was over once Jeffrey was gone, he was good. And we almost started watching and again, and he's just like, as long as we skip those episodes with T take him knowing what was coming. And for me, I had to say that he's, he's definitely the worst, but this, this serious <inaudible> and Ramsay we're also too.
Autumn (43m 47s):
And the show where I was like, duh, duh, duh, duh. You know, you have to be horrible ends as fast or as slow as possible. You know?
Jesper (43m 57s):
I agree. But, but, but that was, I agree. Ramsey was also somebody you, you rooted for him to die, but yes, but Ramsey was not in annoying in the same way I used to me ruthless. Yeah. He was just ruthless and he was not a nice character at all. And you certainly did not root for him whatsoever, but still, he was just not annoying in that same way. Whereas this character of, so I still remember the episode when he finally died, he was just like, yes, yes, yes. It was like watching a football. And that says something like we do instead itself when you're rooting for him, I think it was the character. It wasn't a real person rooting for their death because I give George RR Martin credit for making it character that you are like, oh, so every one of the world can get behind wanting this character that I have amazingly powerful for a Villa, a young villain.
Autumn (44m 52s):
You just fantastically horrible. You wanted him to die.
Jesper (44m 55s):
Yeah. So it was in unlike some of the other examples. It's excellent writing. Cause you really hate him. It was my number one.
Autumn (45m 3s):
Your number two. I can't imagine what your number one is.
Jesper (45m 7s):
Well, my number one is so bad. Well, I'm going to let you, since I was my number one, we can skip to yours.
Autumn (45m 13s):
And then if it isn't your number one, I have, like I said, a dishonorable mention.
Jesper (45m 20s):
Okay. All right. So my number one, and honestly I knew right away when I made this list that this character have to be the number one and he is worth worst than any of the other ones that I've mentioned.
Autumn (45m 31s):
Oh gosh. I can't imagine anything worse than Jeffrey.
Jesper (45m 35s):
Oh, just wait here. And I have to say as well though, I love this universe. I love these movies as do millions and millions of other people. All right. However, I am the only one who find this character incredibly irritating. Oh, let's hear it. He was originally designed to give some funny laughs. But instead he is just so incredibly simple minded and stupid that he becomes intolerable. Let me play this a couple of four.
Autumn (46m 12s):
You sounds good.
Jesper (46m 12s):
I'll try again. Maybe it didn't say. Hmm. Okay. Interesting. Oh no. I don't know. Let me fix it. Yeah. I can tell you. So
Character 5 (46m 28s):
I think that, can you tell your mommy, I love you. You almost got killed. We have brainless eyes. So the ability to speak does not make them intelligent that out of him know Mrs. <inaudible> Mrs. In our humble seven. Oh my God. I love you so much.
Jesper (46m 45s):
I know. It's it just keeps playing how annoying it that you can't stop it and know.
Autumn (46m 54s):
Oh, you're right. So yes. I saw the judge of things on so many lists as just hated, hated, hated him for everything from his character, his idiocy too, the cultural appropriation of what they based it on.
Jesper (47m 11s):
And yeah, people hate our banks with that passion. I started checking in with a passion as well. I still think he is just so incredibly annoying that the all most destroys like, so I love this star wars movies, but at this character almost destroys those movies where he's in.
Autumn (47m 30s):
Oh my God. Yeah. He's he's incredibly painful. I think one person had one redeeming quality sing. At least your kids can probably laugh at him where there is other characters like Geoffrey and others that are just like, no one laughs at that. They're just so bad or horrible that your, your not giggling at all.
Jesper (47m 49s):
Oh yeah. But that is definitely up there.
Autumn (47m 51s):
Like I said, I still think Jeffery's worst, but me. All right. So you wanna hear my dishonorable mention and I'm actually surprised she didn't mention this one because you stopped watching the series because you couldn't take this character. Oh, which one have, I know I've thought about the Lucifer from the T V series.
Jesper (48m 13s):
Oh yeah. Yeah. That's true.
Autumn (48m 15s):
Yes. And he was really annoying, but I know he didn't annoy me as much of these five that, but, but he is the norm. He is annoyed and I have, so I did watch it, the whole series and I just, just, they just released the funnel part of it. And it was worth to me it was worth watching, but even his character arc is amazing. He goes like for our and M anagrams, he has at the bottom, bottom bottom. And he goes all the way up to the top, over the course of the series, which is amazing to watch a little ups where, you know, you have backslides a little bit fantastic writing that way. And that's why I enjoyed the series in what he becomes is amazing. But there were times that I was just going, oh my God, I can not take just level of arrogance.
Autumn (49m 4s):
Stupidity is in those first few episodes for painful, but once you've got more until the story, and once we got into the detective, Chloe and what is going on there, and then you and I will, I love the fact that Netflix did allow them to finish up the series and finish up the story arc because the writers did a fantastic job of doing that and tying up all these loose ends. So the series itself was definitely worth watching, but there were times that it was just like, holy rap. They had him start at such a low, low point that if I was writing a book, I don't know if I'd want to have you, you take a big risk to start with a main character that has that much of a oh yeah.
Autumn (49m 45s):
But they do such a good job pulling him all the way up to the character arc where he's at the absolute upper end. And it's amazing.
Jesper (49m 55s):
All right. Hmm. Okay. Yeah. Oh, I think this is a tough one to conclude on Oren because there's a lot of really bad characters on these two lists. You are. I think we have very good points on both sides. You have had some really annoying characters.
Autumn (50m 12s):
And I think of my list with their very specifically purposely genre chosen niches are very, it was very well done. And I say so myself, yes, yes.
Jesper (50m 28s):
Yeah. At least argued as well. Good for you a you aren't who'd well from your list as well. And you know, of course in some of them I have not watched, so I don't know. And the same for me, of course, some of my list do you have not watched? So you also don't know, but I might have to leave. And then we have a couple where we just agree.
Autumn (50m 45s):
I think we can say Jeffrey is one of the worst characters out there forever, but yeah, he is. Yes. All right. Well maybe, I don't know. We have to have to have half that have the listeners way in which maybe we missed the one. Did we miss someone who's could be worse than these? I don't know. Right? Yeah.
Jesper (51m 6s):
I'm even though I started out by saying that I should win this one because we both had, I have audio clips prepared, which I do think I should have some point. You have time for all audio clips, you got a 0.4 being stronger, specific to fantasies. So, and so that's pretty cool. Ah, and then we have a couple where we either, I didn't know that it wasn't, you didn't know mind. And then we have a couple of, we agreed upon. So maybe actually from the beginning, I would of been a sad. So as I said it in the beginning for not winning, because I actually came more prepared than you did. But on the other hand you pulled some pretty good stuff out of your sleeves there.
Jesper (51m 48s):
So maybe, oh yeah, yeah.
Autumn (51m 50s):
So maybe, maybe we can, maybe we can make it a DRO. I actually know if you too bad about it all. That's pretty good for a last-minute homework thing that, you know, I agree to withdraw because that was a pretty much a whipped up this morning list.
Jesper (52m 7s):
Alright. But, but as you set, some of you listeners can think of some really annoying characters that we forgot about it. And please let us know. I would like to know what those are that we missed, or if you liked any of these characters, please tell us why please eat well. And we promise not to start arguing with you. So just say we accept your point of view and that's it.
Autumn (52m 27s):
Yes, absolutely. I'm just curious, especially Bella, why it's especially Bella.
Narrator (52m 35s):
All right. So next Monday we have back to the topic of writing craft. I always enjoy those too. And we're going to talk about how to maintain your story flowing despite all of lifestyle. So if you liked what you just heard, there's a few things you can do to SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST. Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. You can also join Autumn and Jesper on patreon.com/Am Writing Fantasy For as little as a dollar a month. You'll get awesome rewards and keep The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast, going, stay safe out there and see you next Monday.