What really is a "writer?"

Jesper and Autumn run the gamut in this episode to break down the myth, history, and perception of what being a writer really means. Throw in some great quotes from famous authors, and you have a fun mix that will get you pondering what you call yourself ... and why it is - or isn't - a big deal in the first place!

It's true! Pre-orders are LIVE for Story Idea, Plot Development, and Plot Development Step by Step! You can secure your copy for release day of August 3rd through the links below!

Story Idea: A Method to Develop a Book Idea at https://books2read.com/StoryIdeas

Plot Development: An Outlining Method for Fiction at https://books2read.com/Plot-Development 

Plot Development Step by Step: Exercises for Planning Your Book at https://books2read.com/PlottingWorkbook 

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Read the full transcript below. (Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion).

Narrator (2s):
You're listening to The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast in today's publishing landscape. You can reach fans all over the world. Query letters are a thing of the past. You don't even need a literary agent. There is nothing standing in the way of making a living from Writing Join two best selling authors who have self published more than 20 books between them now onto the show with your hosts. Autumn Birt and Jesper Schmidt

Jesper (30s):
Hello I am Jesper

Autumn (31s):
and I'm Autumn

Jesper (34s):
Episode 78 of the Am Writing Fantasy podcast. And today we are going to talk with him about what it means to be a writer. And I know that's going to require a bit of elaboration, but I will get back to that a bit later. Yes. I'm still looking forward to it and believe it or not, this will impress you. I did research for this one.

Autumn (57s):
Did you? I did writing work. Why? Because I didn't want to go outside. No. Aye. Because I wanted it. I like facts. I love history. I like, you know, things or things. You said the repeat themselves and we don't usually appreciate it. Cause we don't realize that if you don't know you're history, you realize that's repeating. So we did some digging on this one. I can't wait to share it. I usually just with all these episodes, maybe we shouldn't tell people that it's all right. I don't mind being notorious for, you know, showing up and doing a presentation with no preparation.

Autumn (1m 32s):
I just I'm waiting for the day that someone calls me, sees me in the audience and calls me up and asked me to do a whole hour on something. I'm like, Oh geez. I should never have said I do this all the time. Right?

Jesper (1m 43s):
Yeah. And actually I will say it depends on if it was me. It would depend on what they would want me to speak about. But I do think that certain topics I could probably work in an hour. The, it depends on what it is though.

Autumn (1m 53s):
Yesper talk about maps one hour ago. You would be all site, but yes. So how are things on your side or the Atlantic this week? No, it's good.

Jesper (2m 6s):
It's a good, eh, we are trying to get ready for some of occasion, obviously. So a sort of, a lot of things going, I mean, it's still like more than a month away, but were just trying, I'm trying to get everything wrapped up also for our stuff. So it's been actually just the few days ago where, Oh, well, yeah, that's a point of this recording. Of course not. When this episode released this, because that's the wonders of the podcast. And today we always have to be careful with the timing of when we mentioned things because we are prerecording some stuff here.

Jesper (2m 40s):
Yes. But at least at the point of recording this just a few days ago, I sent out an email to our Am Writing Fantasy lists recruiting what we call typos layers four, not one but three. Yes. You have that right. Three different non fiction books for authors though. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, it is crazy. Oh, come on. You're

Autumn (3m 0s):
Sending out the emails. I sent you the file's to put it up the pre-orders today. So it feels like this is really half a day.

Jesper (3m 8s):
Yeah. I am so excited that it is happening. So there are three of them. So just to mention, there is the first one is Plot Development And Outlining Method four Fiction and Plot Development Step by Step So that <inaudible> there was one that is the actual plodding book that we talked about so much. And then the other step by step one is the associated what books. And then we also have Story Idea Book and Method to develop a book Idea so it's basically like creating a whole premise, which we'll talk about later on in a, in a future episode or more on a, more about in a future episode, I meant to say, but that is three books that we are trying to launch right.

Jesper (3m 47s):
Leading up to summer holiday. So I don't know if we're a bit crazy here, but a lot

Autumn (3m 52s):
Considering everything we have going on. I know we're crazy, but it feels so good to be getting these things. So finally, after talking about them for so long, finally bringing them out. So

Jesper (4m 4s):
Yeah. And honestly, I can't, I can't wait to release these. Yes. So they, they are for the listener here. They are going to be out on the 13th of August. Ah, but you can actually, if I do all my time traveling, correct here with podcasting, you should be able to preorder them already now and we'll place the Link's in the show notes so that you can actually go and preorder them if you are interested in these books, which of course you're home. We hope you are.

Jesper (4m 34s):
But other than that, I just also wanted to mention a Autumn that I finally found a time to go back and listen to episode 75 when you have Kirsten Oliphant on. Yeah. That was a great episode. Yeah.

Autumn (4m 45s):
Yeah. She was a wonderful, wonderful guest. I really appreciate her time and her tips on pen names. And when you really need to launch a different author platform for what you're writing, writing in multiple genres. Yeah. And I can't believe she, she honestly said that she reads a book a day. She did say that I want to go back going really. I just really let that sink in. I don't understand. I mean, Hello, she has a lot of kids at the house with as well. Yeah. I mean, I don't know, maybe there, I don't want to assume that their kids' books, but she did say maybe she was saying she, maybe she went to say she reads a book.

Autumn (5m 24s):
She reads every day. Not she is. So she would make sure she reads everyday. Not a whole book.

Jesper (5m 30s):
All right. I know. Okay. But yeah, I think she said she ran a whole book at day, but yeah, that's a pretty damn amazing. Oh, well done it. That's true. Yeah. Yeah.

Autumn (5m 40s):
Very good speed reader. That would be amazing. I could read that fast. I would probably read a little bit more because I task oriented. I get so wrapped up in things that I have a hard time switching to something else. So once I get to a good book and you're getting into like that new and getting really close to the climax. So that's back two thirds basically of the novel. That's it I'm hooked. That's all I'm doing. I'm not making dinner. I'm not Writing I'm not working on our courses. Nothing. I'm just reading. So I'm on a reading diet until we get some of this stuff done.

Autumn (6m 13s):
Alright. Yeah. I have to the opposite problem. It takes to me so long to read the book. Like sometimes I have to remind myself when I go back. What happened last time? I can't see. I'm so bad at it. Usually, you know, I read when I go to bed in the evening and when I go to bed, I'm so tired. I really don't have the energy to read. So I'd just fall asleep. I'm really good at falling asleep. You know, I can fall asleep within a minute or so. Yeah. So yeah, I don't get much reading done. And that was going to say with, and they're a task into, to do list with a vacation coming up.

Autumn (6m 46s):
I mean, I've already got to be keeping you up late tonight, the record, this podcast. So we can relax when we'd go on vacation, then I hope so. Ah, you better? Yeah. So will you also keeping busy? So how are you on your end or a very good, well, at the time we are recording this things are crazy. I'm in the United States' and I wish I could time travel to see if things are going to get any better when this is really you. So I'm just hoping they do, but it is kind of crazy over here and a little scary at the moment.

Autumn (7m 18s):
And yeah, I mean, I'm just trying to keep my head down and stay busy, but you know, at least in personal things, I've got a little bit of writing done. I've been doing some cover design, which is always fun. I'm getting our formatting books done. So things are progressing very well. My garden is growing. My husband has been working on 105 year old canvas frame, Cedar canoe, and he just put the canvass in the top coat on it today. And now it gets to cure for four weeks before.

Autumn (7m 49s):
Are you going painted? So its kinda cool to watch him and restore a hundred, five year old canoe is really something special. And why, where did you find that use? We actually paid a little bit too much for it. Cause we thought it was him. We bought it. It, we thought it was in better shape and its become a project that he's enjoying immensely, but it's Oh my God, this is not something you do because you have some, you know, your, your saving and skimping money. It's not a cheap enterprise, but, and he's doing very well and he's not usually the woodworker in the family.

Autumn (8m 22s):
I am. So I'm very impressed. We go on the internet with The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast Oh, so we have a lot, lot, lot, lots, lots of interesting potent right in Fantasy Facebook. Hey, we were just going crazy over there. It is. Which I love its been so busy and I have actually managed again in a couple of times this week, so that's good. But yeah, it's such a vibrant, exciting group.

Autumn (8m 54s):
Yeah. I noticed how it, Chris was very

Jesper (8m 56s):
Helpful and he pointed out how publishing too Apple books. It no longer requires a Mack. So you just need an iCloud on iTunes connect account and then you can publish directly to Apple books. That's a pretty nice. That is cool.

Autumn (9m 11s):
Yeah. Pretty cool. That's a very, that doesn't surprise me about Apple. I mean, come on a, use a Mac and I can open any file you send me, but I have the files I want to send you I've come to translate so you can open them on your PC. Yeah,

Jesper (9m 25s):
Yeah. That's a bit annoying, but yeah, but Chris also mentioned by the way that the Google books appears to be open to anyone. That's what he said. And I have heard this as, as well in other places. So I think its absolutely correct. Yeah, it think so. But of course you and I are and we got in a long time ago, so I'm not sure if it works on it, but I guess for those listening, who haven't yet published their books on Google, you can go and check it out now and you should be able to create an account I think.

Jesper (9m 55s):
And then afterwards, you know, hit Autumn and I up on Twitter or leave a comment on this episode and let us know if it works. Yeah. I'm really curious. Yeah, that should have a book.

Autumn (10m 4s):
I was, are they still have so far to go in the dashboard? So I will warn folks if your going over there, it is not the same as Amazon's managed for us or anything else, but it does work and it is nice. You know, I want to change the price on a book. You have to go in and go in to this file and there's just like, you can't just see what the price is on. The main screen kind of would be

Jesper (10m 26s):
To be useful. But anyway, yeah, that's not the best. I mean by that and you have to download a sales report in Excel, you cannot manipulate it on the screen and stuff, but it's not that bad, but it's just a bit, maybe a bit more old fashioned than they would speak. Yeah.

Autumn (10m 43s):
Yeah. It's all right. Yeah, it works. So yeah. Let us know if it is working an open to everyone, that's kind of a huge step for Google and I guess if enough people do it, maybe they'll, you know, tweak it a little bit more. So that'd be excellent. I once gave them the feedback that they should have bought pronoun when that, when that site closed down. So probably which they had. Yeah, I can see.

Jesper (11m 6s):
Yeah. But Jason also mentioned by the way that he has written 40,000 words in the last 10 days, so that's awesome. Congratulations, Jason. Yeah, that is fantastic. Congratulations. That's always exciting to see the authors writing and doing well or a thousand words in 10 days. That's pretty good. That's a good milestone. That is awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So I really liked how lively and helpful to the Facebook group is. So if you haven't joined it yet and you are listening here, then what are you waiting for? Join us in over to the group section of Facebook and simply search for Am Writing Fantasy and you will find us and we will let you in.

Jesper (11m 43s):
Yes.

Autumn (11m 44s):
Yeah. And it's fun because it's, it's everything from supportive to asking a fun questions like Hector who had written, you know, what spells would you give your antagonist that isn't to overpowered? So it's everything from pulling apart tropes to question's to support, to celebrating things. So I love it over there. So you actually initially came up with this topic Autumn so perhaps you can set the scene a bit.

Autumn (12m 15s):
What are we talking about here? We're talking about that idea that all a real Writer and real in quotation marks are a real Writer does, is write. And so this kind of comes up from, you know, lots of beams and things, online threads that you'll see where someone goes up to a famous author and says how much you know, Story I do you have to imagine this, how much do you see time? Do you spend writing every day to become such an amazing famous author?

Autumn (12m 47s):
And they go, Oh, well I write from nine to noon in the morning. And then from one til five 30, I marketing and the person that's a good question goes, Oh, Oh, you are not a real Writer and walks away. So that sort of where this comes from, it's this idea that a real, Writer a real writer write it's a real writer has a publisher. It's a real writer. Is this, this certain rigid thing that spends only time WRITING, it's a, it's a very, I feel like it's a very outdated way of viewing things to be honest.

Autumn (13m 23s):
But I, it surprises me because I think, I mean, at least every month I still hear people say that I have to admit, I think it used to be every week that I would hear people say, Oh, you know, Writing is blah, blah, blah. But there are still people who feel that if you're not Writing, you know, if you're not only writing, if your still marketing, then your not a real writer. Right? Yeah. I mean, of course there is some personal belief in this. I mean, everybody probably have their own understanding of what it means to be a writer.

Autumn (13m 55s):
And what does a writer do on doing well, eight hours of work and or whatever you wanna call it. Right. Write, I mean, we are probably, everybody probably has their own opinion about <inaudible>, but yeah, that's what we are gonna try to dig a bit deeper in here and try to at least share some of the, how have you seen and the, I don't know, maybe challenge you're thinking of it. I am not sure. Let's see. Oh yes. I definitely, I believe me. I think the world needs a lot more time listening to each other and sort of making assumptions and talking to dead air. So I think its just as a dun in an idea of to challenge a challenge, what you think a real writer is.

Autumn (14m 30s):
And maybe even if you hate marketing and maybe challenge or assumptions, that marketing is a part of Writing. So I tried, I, like I said, I did some digging in history of files to bring up some ideas for today. Okay. Let's hear it. Alright. Well I wanted to go, as I said, I think history itself, a lot of people don't realize that history repeats itself because we think now is like everything we forgotten, like I've was joking with my husband today.

Autumn (15m 2s):
I looked back at February when the room, my built in my cabin was snow in some debris and I look at it down, it's a room and I'm like, really? That was only a few months ago. So it's so easy to forget, but I looked up the history of self publishing. And what do you think is the earliest example of self publishing? I would say it's

Jesper (15m 28s):
Well I, I would say it's probably, I don't, I don't know any names of the authors or whatever, but I think it would be half to do something to do with somebody in a way we all times by buying a, a PR you know, getting his own book printed on a press and paying for it himself. Yes. That would be good.

Autumn (15m 51s):
We have a definition that would say that the definition of self publishing and so yes. So when Johannes Gutenberg invented the printing press, that was 1440. And so yeah, some people say that it's the history of self publishing, but honestly the Chinese were using movable type way before that. So technically it's older even then that, and I mean, technically you, you can go back to it when people are writing scrolls, that would be self publishing. And the earliest evidence of that is 3,100 BC.

Autumn (16m 22s):
So a technically it depends on how much you want to go into it. So we're not gonna do a history lesson But yeah. So how did they do Amazon? App's in 1300 BC. Oh, I don't think it was him as well as he could have been. It was in the Amazon, right? Yeah.

Jesper (16m 42s):
But he would be somebody that says sitting out in the treats shop or shouting about it. Okay. The book is out. Yeah,

Autumn (16m 48s):
Yeah. That's right. Dunn. Yeah. You read it now. Hot off the lift. But so what are some, it was a time period and it was pretty big. So in the 18 hundreds, self publishing was actually very typical and they call it a vanity publishing. So where do you think vanity? Why do they use the term vanity for publishing?

Jesper (17m 11s):
Aye. I could be wrong on this, but I think that it has to do with is because the, well, the author has a bit of a hit, you know, that they want their own works published and no, at least the connotation it has today is that self publishing some times is called a bandage publishing because it's a bit like it's not, isn't it a really good publishing. It is just like somebody who wanted to put this out into the world. They probably tried to get in a, a, a traditional publishing house to publish it, which they wouldn't because it wasn't good enough.

Jesper (17m 44s):
So they went ahead and published it on their own. That's a bit of the stigma it has today, at least that

Autumn (17m 50s):
I don't know if that's way originated from as well. I need a little child little thing. Yes. Gold star for you. That is correct because it's considered vanity publishing because the author was vain and we want it to be published even though they've had been rejected, but that is a stigma. Even back then, that isn't necessarily true. Some people maybe they couldn't get published, but the thing about women writers, they were, they just couldn't even own property. They couldn't even talk to publishers unless they had a male relative. And this was even in England.

Autumn (18m 21s):
So some of them were paying to have books published and using a pen names or anonymous was very famous, basically meant AU is written by a woman. And so there is a lot of authors who were vanity publishing because they had no other means, but they're books were good because come on, you've got a guest, at least a couple people who, or a self published, just like, Oh, you could pick an author, the author and the author of a historic, you can choose a modern one Plato Oh, you know, I didn't go back that far.

Autumn (19m 7s):
It's not fair. I self published something. I bet he did too. I'm sure the Greeks were really into self publishing and we just don't appreciate it. But some of my favorites, I couldn't believe this. John Locke was self published, Nathaniel Hawthorne, Martin Luther, Marcel Proust, some of the, what are some of the works that they published it that way. I see, Oh, I'm not even going to go into him. But how about some really good ones? What Whitman, the leaves of grass, in fact, well, Whitman is considered the first one who discovered Author branding.

Autumn (19m 44s):
He sold the leaves of grass based on his rather notorious lifestyle and who he was. So yeah, I didn't actually realize that he was so scandalous. That was kind of fun to read. It's a very salicious. I now have a new appreciation for the leaves of grass and you have to read it again. But two, the paragons that I could not believe are self published where Emily Dickinson and Jane Rustin, Jean Oxton, I mean, she is considered, she is second to Shakespeare in sales and notoriety and she self published in her lifetime.

Autumn (20m 25s):
So that kind of says something about what self publishing is. So it's self publishing has been around a long time. So that's only part of this question though. The question is, you know, what does it mean to be a writer? So these authors were self published. What I could not uncover and unbury unfortunately is how much time these Author spent. You know, it was shaking the Busch and telling people about their works, how they went about selling them.

Autumn (20m 54s):
However Jane Austin. It really was her brother, Henry and her sister Kassandra, who were shouting about our work here. She was very lucky that way to have very strong family support. And she tried very hard to not let people know. First. She tried to have to let people know it was written by a woman and then that kind of leaked out and she just signed her books. They were titled by a lady, but she did get to meet with the Prince Regent, who was a huge fan. So she did do some meetings and things like that. I think later in life, there was a few book signings, but other people, like I mentioned, well, what he was, he was of the brand and he was out all the time selling these books.

Autumn (21m 34s):
In fact, he basically published the leaves of grass in 18 different versions. He just kept adding on it and putting stuff together. That was his book. It was only, it was his only book, you know? And you just went on selling it and he sold it based on who he was. And people just wanted it because he was like, Oh, you wrote this. Oh my goodness. I want you to read us. So I just found, it's so fascinating to read through some of this history of some of these paragons, you know, people, we never would be like reading, I'm reading this and finding out, but you know, Emerson, you know, actually Benjamin Franklin, I self published.

Autumn (22m 12s):
A lot of these people published and they would do adverts in the local paper. They would do book signings. They would go to the societal dinner's and bring their book and be like, well, you know, I wrote this so you can do a little reading and the polite society rooms and try to get people to spread the word. I mean, this is, this was the earliest social media of going to these dinners and spreading the word about there books. And these are people that we just think, Oh, it's Dean Austin. Of course, of course she did well, but Nope, she, she had to shake the Busch.

Autumn (22m 45s):
So I'll think of this stuff up from somewhere. Yeah. You all start from somewhere until you get to be known. So I did really find this fascinating that there is a huge history of being not only self published, but Writer is having to do a lot more and a lot of heavy lifting than just writing. Yeah, absolutely. But I'll also even, even in the modern day, for example, you know, a JK Rowling, self-publishers her eBooks versions of Harry Potter, but I actually didn't know that's the, I didn't bring up to modern.

Autumn (23m 18s):
That's exciting. Yeah. So, so, so she didn't want to sign a waiver to REITs for the iBooks because it owns so much money. So, so she holds help hold onto those rights herself for her. And she's self publish is the Harry Potter books and books. And then she sign the contract a For, you know, paperback in hot back and whatnot ride. So that's an excellent, she owns the rights herself. So I'm self published. That is fantastic. And I wonder if she owns the IP assume there's audio

Jesper (23m 46s):
Books, there has to be audio works. So here we have hotter. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Are, there is a, I think that's with a publishing house, but I'm not an a 100% share on that, but I think it is considering, I am sure she would have had the money to hire somebody, but considering how difficult and time consuming of a process, they can do whatever she wants. Yeah. I think she is one of the richest woman in the world. So I think she was doing fine in those days. Yeah. Yeah, indeed. Okay. Well actually I also find found the quote that I was thinking about four for this podcast episode here.

Jesper (24m 18s):
So I was thinking too, maybe just shared and then follow on with a bit of my thoughts, because if it goes into this entire topic here, excellent. So this is a quote from Ray Bradbury. So it goes like this quote, if you simply define a rider as someone who is WRITING clarity says In, you are truly a rider when you are writing. And if you don't write regularly, don't pretend to give yourself that title start writing more for me, they key is.

Jesper (24m 53s):
Yeah. And then yeah. End of the quote, write. And then what I want you to say is that for me, the key is in that word regularly because I can agree to that pot. I mean, if you want to, if you want to be an author, that also means that you have to put your butt in the seat and ride at the end of the day, we only authors if we write stuff. So I would say, you know, only writing his writing marketing is not Writing social media is not writing.

Jesper (25m 25s):
Only writing is writing. However, that does not mean that none of those other activities isn't a part of being an author is. And I think for me, that's where the distinction lies because you also have to do marketing. You also have to do social media and all those other things. So as you set in the beginning of the episode would have been the beginning of the section Autumn when somebody was asking, so how much do you write? And then if the answer was well, our right in the morning and I do marketing in the afternoon, and then people would say, well, then you're not a writer.

Jesper (26m 0s):
I think it comes from stuff like this. You know, that there was this kind of thinking that well, writers only write. And if you do anything else, then you not a proper right. Or maybe there's a bit of thinking as well that, well, if your a proper righty, your publisher will do all those other things for you. But nowadays in 2020 property says actually expect the authors to due to marketing as well. They do not, if your a Stephen King or something, then he will get whatever he wants. But for everybody else, even those who are those who have traditional publishing contracts, the puppet is that they will not really allocate any funding or attention to watch marketing.

Jesper (26m 39s):
They actually expect the author to do it. So that's why I also set up at the top that

Autumn (26m 45s):
I think it's a bit of an old fashioned outdated view on things this whole, this whole conversation, you know, it's, I don't know. I find it a bit weird that unless you ride eight hours a day and do nothing else, then you're not a right. I don't, I can't quite follow the logic day. And I probably can't, if we go 10 or 20 years back than maybe I understand now in 2020 now I don't get it. I agree. And I think that's a really good distinction is like Yeah writers writing is Writing and you're a writer if you're actively writing or at least trying to write every day, or are you have a scheduled in your reading, but an author, it incorporates a lot more.

Autumn (27m 26s):
And that's even book signings. I mean, we know someone who, you know, their publisher sends them off to some of these book fairs and stuff. That's not Writing, that's being front and center. Even if the publisher is paying your entrance fee, which is always nice instead of having to do it out of your Author business. But it, again, sometimes you go what you do, these book signings, your handing out cards and stuff. As you go and share, you've got a grocery store until when to ask what you do. And you say, you're a writer and you told them about your books and they're you go?

Autumn (27m 57s):
It doesn't matter if you have a publisher not, but I agree a lot of publishers these days do expect you to have done it. And a lot of publishers like to pick up authors and writers who have been doing it. So that's why there's a lot of hybrid authors that use days where they Be, they started out as a self publishing and they are doing such a good job at getting themselves known in an in demand that publisher thinks, Oh, you are a safe bet. So I'm going to skip, are you up? And you are going to keep doing what you're doing, but now we're going to handle the book sales and maybe some of that advertising or are paying for the expenses for you to go to these big, big book, fair is and booking you out two signings and things.

Autumn (28m 36s):
Now, I mean, this is just good business, right? Yeah. I mean, if, if you are running a business and you are the head of publishing at a big publishing house, who do you want to sign? And you want to take a chance on an Author. You never heard about And who has no media, a social media following on anything, or do you wanna pick the one where you can see that they have a lot of following a lot of people, you know, talking about them and probably buying the books, which of course is as a publisher, you want know what at that point in time, but you have a pretty strong indication if you see what they're doing on the internet, right. Or whether or not it looks like they have a lot of following.

Autumn (29m 9s):
And so who do you go with? Of course, you'd pick the one with the following, right. Because you know, well this guy, he or her, yes, they can, they can publish their way. They can promote their own book. I'm going to say, and, and they can make a cell. And that's what do you want? Yeah, that's a publishing house. I mean, right. And there are some benefits. I mean, some the publishing house is they have some great NS with libraries, like the bookstore, as you see it airport's and things like that as well. That's actually kind of hard to get into as an Indy published author. Yeah. I think that's probably the only thing to be honest.

Autumn (29m 41s):
Autumn

Jesper (29m 43s):
I say, I, I, going through, at this point in time, I'm recording the, a free course are that we are going to put up later in the year. And actually I was just going through with the other day, one of the modules, when I talk about self publishing and stuff like that. And one of the things I actually set there is that the only thing that traditional publisher can do that we can not do with self publishers, I am getting into bookstores and libraries in effective manner. That's the only thing that they can do, but there is nothing else that they can do at, we can not do as well.

Jesper (30m 14s):
And probably if we want to better, I agree. I, I, I think, yeah, yeah. And editing might be some slight different that that's probably something where I would say that they can do it well, and it's not that we couldn't do exactly the same thing. I think that the thing is just at when the traditional publishing houses do their editing, they go through like 10 rounds of editing or something. It's very rare that you find a traditional published book with a single type of way that it can happen, but its very rare and it is because it's a, they've gone over, over and over and over and over again.

Jesper (30m 47s):
And then of course, as self published authors, we could also, we could do the same thing. I mean we could hire 10 different proof reading editor's and then go through one by one by one by one. And hopefully by the end you will, you we'll have gotten rid of any tables. So if you want two, you could go through that labral in the process a as well. But at least that part, I think that they usually do better in the traditional publishing houses that we do. But when it comes to marketing, getting professional covers, at least if we know who to contact and get them to decide for us and even, even editing as well, you know, all, all those things we can do just as well as they can.

Jesper (31m 25s):
Yeah. I do you think they have the advantage of many different eyes on one thing? Yes. Yes they do. But I definitely, I definitely think there's a split there though, because sometimes you're dealing with lots of people who might give contrary advice and then you have someone who might be really pushing hard for Writing to market. And I have heard stories of authors being really conflicted with getting an offer, have a wonderful, it sounds like a really good deal. You'll be able to a real publisher, but you, no, they want to switch this character and they want to do this and probably still very good book, but that's really hard if you're coming from a creative, I love being in charge of all my creative input.

Jesper (32m 5s):
So yeah that's yeah. As our one guest Hollie had mentioned about her in her writing partner, Angelina in Delina, they are, they were creating the world together, but they were both writing their own stories because they both a little to controlling what else to share the same book in the same character. It was thought that was kind of a durable it's very honest. Hi. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Well that's not always a, you know, you need to find some, but if your, what writing something together with somebody else, you need to find somebody who you, you aware of writing a new way of thinking and your way of working matches well with right?

Jesper (32m 44s):
So otherwise you kind of get sort of conflicts about things. So it's a, well, we actually talked about that in the past episode about finding a, somebody to write with. So go and search for that if your interested, but you said something earlier on that, a trigger something in me because I'm, there's also this whole debate about the, what is the difference between a writer and an author. And I did find, I did find some definitions. This is not me making it up.

Jesper (33m 14s):
This is some stuff I found on that.

Autumn (33m 16s):
The internet, which is always this. Yeah, exactly. Then Janette is always telling this truth, no matter what do you know? It Autumn that it's the way it is. All right. Never lies and everything you read is true. And you know what? I believe everything can say

Jesper (33m 29s):
Yes, but I found this ah, this way of wording it. Ah, and I thought it was just shared because then I want, you want us to talk a bit about what we think about it afterwards? So it goes like this, that some say that a writer is someone who writes a book, an article or whatever. Why not? An author is one who originates the idea of the Plot all the content of that it's been what is being written and both of those can of course be at the same person.

Jesper (34m 2s):
And then there are others who say that right, is our people who write Y all those authors who are those who have published their work and are earning money from it. So that sort of two different ways of

Autumn (34m 15s):
Distinguishing between being a rider and being an Author. Okay. I hadn't heard that first one before and it doesn't really resonate well with me, but the second one to me is, is more true. I Writer is someone who is REITs is writing. I mean, you could be a writer if your doing blogs and other things, a you're a journalist, you're a writer, but an author is definitely someone who has, you have given birth and produced a novel. And suddenly C's, you know, they've done the editing, they've done the covers.

Autumn (34m 47s):
Now they see, they had to do ads. They were doing the social media is more of a business idea. Even if they have a publisher, whether or not they have a publisher, they are an author B. It was like becoming a parent. Your not a mom until you give birth. So with the child. But do you know what my view on this? Is that, is that Yeah. Why do we care? It's a good one. Why does it matter? What is a Writer versus what, I mean, if you tie start typing it in, in Google law, in, in a, in your web browser, it'll automatically populate.

Autumn (35m 23s):
What is the difference between a writer and an author? Just like we can ask, why have we are debating what the differences are? It makes absolutely zero difference. It's very true. I think it's human nature to want categorize things and be able to define things as part of our little curiosity about, you know, understanding the world by putting labels in words, on things. But it does that make a difference at the end of the day, really?

Jesper (35m 53s):
Alan is like, I really feel like we need to break free of this line of thinking because I really don't think it matters at all. And the other part is that

Autumn (36m 3s):
Yeah,

Jesper (36m 4s):
A fair bit that some people might be checking out these definitions because maybe they feel a bit too insecure. So then they want, they don't want to end up saying, well, I, you know, if somebody asked, why do, what do you do to, I say, I'm a Writer or do I say Author? What is the difference between the two? And I definitely shouldn't say I'm an author if I haven't published books. So maybe I need to say I'm a writer. And so you blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And on and on and on there's self goes. It's just like, I don't like it.

Jesper (36m 35s):
You know, get rid of that stuff. It doesn't matter if you want to say you're right. If you want to say an author or whatever, say whatever you feel comfortable with, but I just don't think in it, if it matters at all, I don't think it as well that it matters what people, other people they're the people or the person who received that answer. How did you receive that answer? It doesn't matter either. Now. Maybe they feel like, well, Writer, Author maybe those data, we didn't even think about it. Some people we'll be thinking about it and they will be the ones we talked about at, at the top, where, well, are you writing it hours a day?

Jesper (37m 12s):
And if the answer is no

Autumn (37m 16s):
Not good enough for those standard. No, I think no, an honest answer of, Hey, what are you doing? I'm writing a book that kind of, you know, call me whatever you want. Why do you feel comfortable with, yeah, it that's fine. I agree. I think the ideas, like you said, put your butt in the chair. If your, if you want to do this, but your in the chair and actually REIT, and don't worry at what people call you or define you because some people are going to call you are a writer, so I'm gonna call you Author so we will call you a HACC, but its just do it and you know, do it cause you love it or because it's a drive within you and that's really the important part.

Autumn (37m 53s):
And yeah, you might, if you go on to publish a book, you're going to find out that there's a lot more to Writing. Whether you are publishing through a publisher or self publishing, you're going to find out there's quite a lot more to it than just, you know, hitting done. And it's suddenly magically out their and selling. There's a lot more shaking. I always think of a word, little worker bees doing their working bee dance to saying I am getting my work done. So yeah, you're gonna, you're going to find that as part of your life too.

Jesper (38m 24s):
Yeah, that's true. I mean, for me it's like, if you need permission from anybody as a listener, you have my permission permission from now on you can call yourself a writer, an author, the muster of the universe of whatever you want. I don't care. I don't care if I mean, it doesn't matter if you've published anything or if you have that pup, is there anything, if you want to call yourself a writer or an author? I do. So I think that the only thing that matters, as I said earlier on is that you right on a regular basis, whether you are published on it or not, it doesn't really matter if you're right on a regular basis and you, if you're committed to death in my view, then you are a writer.

Jesper (39m 2s):
I like it. I, I agree with it. And I think that's where we should definitely end on that note that, yes, it's good to call yourself a writer, call yourself an author. Don't don't deny yourself that if that is what you're doing and that is what's in your heart. Yeah. I have a, I actually find just one more quick, which I think we can finish off with that. Both did our homework for this one. I'm so proud. It's amazing. Isn't it? When you put in the effort, something happens.

Jesper (39m 33s):
He's amazing. But this one, it's a firm Ursula, Kayla Quint and I, I quite like it to so are you ready? All right. Yes, absolutely. From Ursula. Okay. You may have gathered from all of this that I am not encouraging people to try to be writers. Well, I can't, you hate to see a nice young person run up to the edge of the cliff and jump off on the other hand. It is awfully nice to know that some other people are just as knotty and just as determined to jump off the cliffs as you are, you just hope they realize what they are in for at the quote.

Jesper (40m 15s):
Oh, I love it. I that's why I love isn't that amazing? That does amazing. And that is perfect. So yes, I am so glad. I'm glad for the internet some days, because I've met so many people just as crazy, if not a little bit crazier, which is hard to do than me. So yeah. Yeah. And I like the, I liked the core message in In at least a way I read or hear that quote. It's also that if you wanna be a writer, there is a million things that you could do that will earn you an income at a thousand times faster in a thousand times easier.

Jesper (40m 52s):
So if you really want to be a writer and you have to be a bit naughty, you really want to go through with this. So, you know, as she says, she just hope that they realized what they're in for For and I think that is such a good message. You know, that tried to go in and if your listening to podcast like this one, you are going in, open-minded all ready. So that is great. You are already enlightened. As you enter on this journey, by listening to podcasts are reading block post or whatever, or you may be doing a learning about WRITING.

Jesper (41m 24s):
But I like the core message of that, that you can tell people that this should be right. As you know, if they wanna be writers, they want to be right as, and then hopefully they just know

Autumn (41m 34s):
What's gonna hit them. It was a very good message. And I agree, you know, any bunch of people who, it doesn't mind having characters, talking in their head and the spouses and significant others of all of those people who talked to the partners about the people who are talking in their heads and don't end up in the lunatic asylum. It's good. It's all right. So next Monday and if all goes well, Autumn will take a break and I will have a great interview line up for you about self editing.

Narrator (42m 9s):
If you like, what you just heard, there's a few things you can do to SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST please tell a fellow Author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. You can also join Autumn in Yesper on patrion.com/am Writing Fantasy for as little as a dollar a month. You'll get awesome rewards and keep The Am Writing Fantasy Podcast going to stay safe out there and see you next Monday.

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